3 ms·

The first mandatory seatbelt laws weren't passed until the 1980s[1]; that and frontal airbags (not required until 1998[2]) probably cover a large amount of the

The first mandatory seatbelt laws weren't passed until the 1980s[1]; that and frontal airbags (not required until 1998[2]) probably cover a large amount of the overall decline in deaths on our roads. That's to say that we have done some things right, but that it's premature to assume that we've done all we can. We can, and should, go further (including but not limited to traffic calming, disincentivizing driving where it makes sense, and making the legal and educational requirements for driving similar to those in European countries.) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_laws_in_the_United_S... [2]: https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts-history/us-frontal-airbag-mandate-becomes-law-1998 https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts-history/us-frontal-ai...

Aloha 3y ago
For the uninitiated, how do differing european rules make people safer?
- woodruffw 3y ago
  > For the uninitiated, how do differing european rules make people safer? By and large, they're substantially stricter. Using Germany as an example[1]: they require potential drivers to take a multi-segment first aid, submit to a recent optical exam, and perform at least 37 hours of officially overseen driving practice. I believe there are additional training segments that German drivers are required to pass as well, but I'll let an actual German (or other European) speak about those. For contrast: in New York (a somewhat strict state, by US standards), there is no hours of practice requirement once you're over 18. I don't believe there's a medical knowledge requirement either, and the DMV accepts whatever optical record you give them. Germany's car fatality rate is roughly a quarter of the US's[2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Germany [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
  - grandmczeb 3y ago
    Stricter licensing requirements get talked about a lot, but as far as I know the actual evidence that they improve driver safety is pretty mixed (with some exceptions, e.g. vision tests for people over 85.) IMO it’s more likely things like street design and cultural attitudes towards risk are responsible for most of the difference.
    - woodruffw 3y ago
      My understanding is that German highways are similarly safer than American highways, so it's not just street design. I agree that cultural attitudes play a large part; a somewhat easy way to change America's culture of unsafety is to gate the privilege of driving to those who are willing to change it. It's what we did for seatbelts, airbags, and just about everything else that's saved countless drivers' (and passengers') lives over the last few decades.
      - grandmczeb 3y ago
        Street design broadly construed. I don’t think stricter licensing requirements drove changes in attitudes towards seatbelts or airbags.
        woodruffw 3y ago
        > I don’t think stricter licensing requirements drove changes in attitudes towards seatbelts or airbags. No; laws on those things did. Similarly, stricter licensing requirements will change attitudes around safe driving.
        grandmczeb 3y ago
        Maybe I’m not understanding the idea - if you’re saying we should punish people for demonstrated unsafe behavior (e.g seatbelt laws) then I agree, but that’s not really related to licensing requirements. Or is the idea that you’d just not issue licenses to people who are generally risk-seeking? If so, that doesn’t seem like something you could assess without a socially unconscionable false positive rate (and probably wouldn’t be very effective in changing cultural norms IMO.) Or something else?

Aloha 3y ago

For the uninitiated, how do differing european rules make people safer?

woodruffw 3y ago
> For the uninitiated, how do differing european rules make people safer? By and large, they're substantially stricter. Using Germany as an example[1]: they require potential drivers to take a multi-segment first aid, submit to a recent optical exam, and perform at least 37 hours of officially overseen driving practice. I believe there are additional training segments that German drivers are required to pass as well, but I'll let an actual German (or other European) speak about those. For contrast: in New York (a somewhat strict state, by US standards), there is no hours of practice requirement once you're over 18. I don't believe there's a medical knowledge requirement either, and the DMV accepts whatever optical record you give them. Germany's car fatality rate is roughly a quarter of the US's[2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_licence_in_Germany [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
- grandmczeb 3y ago
  Stricter licensing requirements get talked about a lot, but as far as I know the actual evidence that they improve driver safety is pretty mixed (with some exceptions, e.g. vision tests for people over 85.) IMO it’s more likely things like street design and cultural attitudes towards risk are responsible for most of the difference.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    My understanding is that German highways are similarly safer than American highways, so it's not just street design. I agree that cultural attitudes play a large part; a somewhat easy way to change America's culture of unsafety is to gate the privilege of driving to those who are willing to change it. It's what we did for seatbelts, airbags, and just about everything else that's saved countless drivers' (and passengers') lives over the last few decades.
    - grandmczeb 3y ago
      Street design broadly construed. I don’t think stricter licensing requirements drove changes in attitudes towards seatbelts or airbags.
      - woodruffw 3y ago
        > I don’t think stricter licensing requirements drove changes in attitudes towards seatbelts or airbags. No; laws on those things did. Similarly, stricter licensing requirements will change attitudes around safe driving.
        grandmczeb 3y ago
        Maybe I’m not understanding the idea - if you’re saying we should punish people for demonstrated unsafe behavior (e.g seatbelt laws) then I agree, but that’s not really related to licensing requirements. Or is the idea that you’d just not issue licenses to people who are generally risk-seeking? If so, that doesn’t seem like something you could assess without a socially unconscionable false positive rate (and probably wouldn’t be very effective in changing cultural norms IMO.) Or something else?