3 ms·

Multiply the number of MTBF cycles times the battery capacity. Every battery is consumable, every time you draw current from it, they're not tanks full of liqui

Multiply the number of MTBF cycles times the battery capacity. Every battery is consumable, every time you draw current from it, they're not tanks full of liquid, they're chemistry. That being said they're astronomically more efficient than even an ideal carnot engine.

xorbax 3y ago
I wasn't aware that using a battery destroyed the lithium
- fallingknife 3y ago
  Only if it's a fusion battery!
  - xorbax 3y ago
    The best part is that OP edited his comment to make it seem like he didn't argue that an exhausted battery consumed lithium Fun!
    - jaggederest 3y ago
      Editing for clarity is encouraged here, generally. That was not what I was trying to say. The math is something like: MTBF cycles * capacity of battery = usable "life" of the battery usage of lithium by mass in the battery * best recycling technology recovery rate = recoverable lithium per battery ((mass of lithium in battery - recoverable lithium per battery) / usable "life" of the battery) = lithium effectively used up per joule of energy used from that battery It may be that that number is zero grams, or a few picograms, so it doesn't matter. But I don't think with current recovery rates on battery recycling that's true. So, while a failed battery has the same mass of lithium as a new battery, effectively every charge-discharge cycle "uses up" some lithium, which ultimately ends up wasted as recycling byproducts or unusable salts.
Retric 3y ago
A completely used up battery contains the same amount of lithium, cobalt, etc it took to manufacture it. The only question is the economics around mining vs recycling. An easier to recycle battery that had very slightly fewer charge cycles could be a net win. For scale this depot has enough lithium for ~10 billion of EV’s using Tesla’s battery chemistry and pack size as a benchmark. How expensive it is to extract is however unknown.
_ph_ 3y ago
The materials a battery is composed of almost completly can be recycled into a new battery. So creating a new battery requires some work and energy, but not new components.

xorbax 3y ago

I wasn't aware that using a battery destroyed the lithium

fallingknife 3y ago
Only if it's a fusion battery!
- xorbax 3y ago
  The best part is that OP edited his comment to make it seem like he didn't argue that an exhausted battery consumed lithium Fun!
  - jaggederest 3y ago
    Editing for clarity is encouraged here, generally. That was not what I was trying to say. The math is something like: MTBF cycles * capacity of battery = usable "life" of the battery usage of lithium by mass in the battery * best recycling technology recovery rate = recoverable lithium per battery ((mass of lithium in battery - recoverable lithium per battery) / usable "life" of the battery) = lithium effectively used up per joule of energy used from that battery It may be that that number is zero grams, or a few picograms, so it doesn't matter. But I don't think with current recovery rates on battery recycling that's true. So, while a failed battery has the same mass of lithium as a new battery, effectively every charge-discharge cycle "uses up" some lithium, which ultimately ends up wasted as recycling byproducts or unusable salts.

Retric 3y ago

A completely used up battery contains the same amount of lithium, cobalt, etc it took to manufacture it. The only question is the economics around mining vs recycling. An easier to recycle battery that had very slightly fewer charge cycles could be a net win. For scale this depot has enough lithium for ~10 billion of EV’s using Tesla’s battery chemistry and pack size as a benchmark. How expensive it is to extract is however unknown.

_ph_ 3y ago

The materials a battery is composed of almost completly can be recycled into a new battery. So creating a new battery requires some work and energy, but not new components.