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Your link was heavy on opinion and light on data, so I went looking for numbers on Canada to verify your assessment. Median income after taxes: $68,400 [1] Med

Your link was heavy on opinion and light on data, so I went looking for numbers on Canada to verify your assessment. Median income after taxes: $68,400 [1] Median rent (2 bedroom): $2,300 [2] Average tax rate (single worker): ~32% [3] If we apply the 30% rule (it's ok to spend up to 30% of pre-tax earnings spend on rent), your assertion doesn't hold up - well over 50% of Canadians are making plenty of money to afford rent. Of course, in expensive cities where rents have far outpaced wages things are going to be bad but that's true pretty much everywhere in the West these days. If anyone has better numbers, please share. [1] https://www.policyadvisor.com/magazine/what-is-the-average-income-in-canada-2023/ https://www.policyadvisor.com/magazine/what-is-the-average-i... [2] https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data-canada/ https://www.zumper.com/blog/rental-price-data-canada/ [3] https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-canada.pdf https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-canada.pdf

llm_nerd 3y ago
What is the purpose of your [3] link? Genuinely curious. -Very few Canadians can currently qualify for a mortgage for an average home in most markets. The housing market has lost all rational basis. -Canada has approximately 2 million apartment units across all of Canada [1]. The vacancy rate is currently at less than 1% across Canada, and in many areas is hovering around zero. Just as some context, the vacancy rate in California pushes above 5%. NYC is an especially tight market at 3.1%. In both cases the apartments per capita is dramatically higher than Canada. -Landlords of apartments that do come to market have become spectacularly picky, because they can be. Perfect credit. Perfect history. No debts. People have been in situations where they've offered tens of thousands in deposits and a seemingly perfect application, to be denied. It is fascinating how often data is shown that betrays that Canada is in a particularly terrible situation -- like this very submission -- yet people still retort with "oh well it's bad everywhere". No, it is nothing like Canada. Canada is a fully saturated market like nowhere else on the planet. And this government is squeezing a hundred thousand more a month into an already full container, with zero indication of a letup. [1] - As some fun context relative to the 2 million apartments across the entire country, Canada currently has >900,000 international students in Canada, a number that is growing by leaps and bounds.
- mdorazio 3y ago
  My point about the 30% rule for rent is that you calculate that based on pre-tax income. I provided median post-tax income, so to get pre-tax you need to know how much people are paying in taxes. I really don't understand your point here since it truly seems more emotional than data-based. Why are you focused on mortgages / home ownership as opposed to being able to afford to live somewhere? What do vacancy rates have to do with affordability? Why don't you provide a single concrete example of a majority of Canadians being unable to afford rent or being "filtered out" as you originally claimed? All your points here are tangential and don't support the argument. "Canada is completely messed up" is a common refrain online these days, but I just don't see it either in the data or in talking to friends who live outside the Vancouver/Toronto popular areas.
  - llm_nerd 3y ago
    "it truly seems more emotional than data-based" The median Canadian has a credit rating of 650. The median Canadian cannot remotely afford a home in any Canadian market. Apartments -- the absolute last resort -- have vacancies below 1% in most markets, 1.7% nationwide. Canada is seeing an immigrant intake of approximately 130,000 per month. If this isn't data to you, you are clearly not arguing in good faith and are either a contrarian, agenda-driven, or a troll. Or a mix of the three. The retort of "I talked to a friend in Canada" is so absurd that it confirms the prior.
    - mdorazio 3y ago
      Alright we're done here since you don't care about actual financial facts. Denouncing people as trolls when they provide data that goes against your opinion is a bad look. Credit rating has nothing to with anything. I already provided you hard data showing that median Canadians absolutely can afford rent in most Canadian markets, but you're just ignoring it. Now you're restating vacancy rates as though that proves something. It doesn't. You clearly have an agenda here and a belief set around that so I'm not going to convince you of anything.
      - 3y ago

llm_nerd 3y ago

What is the purpose of your [3] link? Genuinely curious. -Very few Canadians can currently qualify for a mortgage for an average home in most markets. The housing market has lost all rational basis. -Canada has approximately 2 million apartment units across all of Canada [1]. The vacancy rate is currently at less than 1% across Canada, and in many areas is hovering around zero. Just as some context, the vacancy rate in California pushes above 5%. NYC is an especially tight market at 3.1%. In both cases the apartments per capita is dramatically higher than Canada. -Landlords of apartments that do come to market have become spectacularly picky, because they can be. Perfect credit. Perfect history. No debts. People have been in situations where they've offered tens of thousands in deposits and a seemingly perfect application, to be denied. It is fascinating how often data is shown that betrays that Canada is in a particularly terrible situation -- like this very submission -- yet people still retort with "oh well it's bad everywhere". No, it is nothing like Canada. Canada is a fully saturated market like nowhere else on the planet. And this government is squeezing a hundred thousand more a month into an already full container, with zero indication of a letup. [1] - As some fun context relative to the 2 million apartments across the entire country, Canada currently has >900,000 international students in Canada, a number that is growing by leaps and bounds.

mdorazio 3y ago
My point about the 30% rule for rent is that you calculate that based on pre-tax income. I provided median post-tax income, so to get pre-tax you need to know how much people are paying in taxes. I really don't understand your point here since it truly seems more emotional than data-based. Why are you focused on mortgages / home ownership as opposed to being able to afford to live somewhere? What do vacancy rates have to do with affordability? Why don't you provide a single concrete example of a majority of Canadians being unable to afford rent or being "filtered out" as you originally claimed? All your points here are tangential and don't support the argument. "Canada is completely messed up" is a common refrain online these days, but I just don't see it either in the data or in talking to friends who live outside the Vancouver/Toronto popular areas.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  "it truly seems more emotional than data-based" The median Canadian has a credit rating of 650. The median Canadian cannot remotely afford a home in any Canadian market. Apartments -- the absolute last resort -- have vacancies below 1% in most markets, 1.7% nationwide. Canada is seeing an immigrant intake of approximately 130,000 per month. If this isn't data to you, you are clearly not arguing in good faith and are either a contrarian, agenda-driven, or a troll. Or a mix of the three. The retort of "I talked to a friend in Canada" is so absurd that it confirms the prior.
  - mdorazio 3y ago
    Alright we're done here since you don't care about actual financial facts. Denouncing people as trolls when they provide data that goes against your opinion is a bad look. Credit rating has nothing to with anything. I already provided you hard data showing that median Canadians absolutely can afford rent in most Canadian markets, but you're just ignoring it. Now you're restating vacancy rates as though that proves something. It doesn't. You clearly have an agenda here and a belief set around that so I'm not going to convince you of anything.
    - 3y ago