4 ms·

What I find really interesting is that the man has so far not been found guilty. So he is factually innocent, yet still has seemingly all basic human rights str

What I find really interesting is that the man has so far not been found guilty. So he is factually innocent, yet still has seemingly all basic human rights stripped from him. Now I know that "Innocent until proven guilty" is a euro-socialist concept which does not apply to the rightfully detained people in the glorious US of A, because the modern and infallible justice system spearheaded by its brillant and impartial police force would never even think of making any errors. Thats why the modern and comfortable prisons which are basically empty nearly never produce any repeat offenders when the few that are even incarcerated are released into society after their successful resocialization. Oh wait, no. We are talking about the only industrialized country in the western world still clinging to a "But the majority says so" justice system of mass punishment and gleeful misstreatment - where you still can be legally shot or electrocuted or hanged when you dont look like someone "the people" like. And the self-proclaimed upper-class of this country, stemming mostly from the area of said country that feels morally and ethically superior to the rest (Valleyfornians) still are gleefully happy in the comments that mistreatment worth of totalitarian regimes is applied to a white collar criminal.

jandrese 3y ago
While true, “but SBF might not be found guilty” is not a hill I would personally choose to die on.
- exar0815 3y ago
  Which is completely besides the point, however dire it looks, guilty is decided by the Judge. (Or the jury in less... modern countries)
  - TheHumanist 3y ago
    While I do understand your points and even agree overall... it's just so hard to have any sympathy for someone that feels almost sociopathic in their decision making to ruin so many people financially. It's very hard.
  - pseudo0 3y ago
    Defendants have a right to a jury trial, but can often opt for a bench trial if they want. Conventional wisdom is that the odds of acquittal are better with a jury, outside of unusual cases (eg. an extremely unpopular defendant). Describing trial by jury as "less modern" is also bizarre, the trial by jury is a specifically enumerated right in the Constitution because of legal abuses in Great Britain in the 1500s and 1600s. It exists to protect defendants by placing the decision ultimately in the hands of members of the community, rather than a single political appointee.
tzs 3y ago
> What I find really interesting is that the man has so far not been found guilty. So he is factually innocent, yet still has seemingly all basic human rights stripped from him. He's not been found guilty of the crimes that he has been charged with. But he also was not jailed for this crimes. He was under house arrest. He's in jail because he violated the terms of his house arrest. > Now I know that "Innocent until proven guilty" is a euro-socialist concept which does not apply to the rightfully detained people in the glorious US of A, because the modern and infallible justice system spearheaded by its brillant and impartial police force would never even think of making any errors. It appears that most countries sometimes jail people pre-trial. Here are some statistics on pre-trail jailing around the world [1]. Among the countries mentioned in that with pre-trail jailing are: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, American Samoa (USA), Andorra, Angola, Anguilla (UK), Antigua & Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Aruba (Netherlands), Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bermuda (UK), Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Cayman Islands (UK), Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Comoros, Congo (Republic of), Cook Islands (NZ), Costa Rica, Cote d’Ivoire, Croatia, Curacao (Netherlands), Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Estonia, Ethiopia, Faeroes (Denmark), Fiji, Finland, French Polynesia (Fr), Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Gibraltar (UK), Greece, Greenland (Denmark), Grenada, Guadeloupe (France), Guam (USA), Guatemala, Guernsey (UK), Guinea (Republic of), Guinea Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hong Kong (China), Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Isle of Man (UK), Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jersey (UK), Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kiribati, Korea (Republic of), Kosovo, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macau (China), Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Martinique (France), Mauritania, Mauritius, Mayotte (France), Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nauru, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, North Macedonia, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico (USA), Qatar, Reunion (France), Romania, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome e Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Sint Maarten (Neth), Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sri Lanka, St Kitts & Nevis, St Lucia, Sudan, Suriname, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, U.S.A., UK: England & Wales, UK: Northern Ireland, UK: Scotland, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands (UK), Virgin Islands (USA), Yemen, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. Note that this list is missing some countries that do pre-trail jailing, such as France. France is in the PDF but I extracted the list by copy/paste from the PDF to text and then cleaned it up with some regular expressions, and some countries in the paste ended up formatted different enough from the others that my cleanup mistook them for headers or something. [1] https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/downloads/world_pre-trial_list_4th_edn_final.pdf https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/...

jandrese 3y ago

While true, “but SBF might not be found guilty” is not a hill I would personally choose to die on.

exar0815 3y ago
Which is completely besides the point, however dire it looks, guilty is decided by the Judge. (Or the jury in less... modern countries)
- TheHumanist 3y ago
  While I do understand your points and even agree overall... it's just so hard to have any sympathy for someone that feels almost sociopathic in their decision making to ruin so many people financially. It's very hard.
- pseudo0 3y ago
  Defendants have a right to a jury trial, but can often opt for a bench trial if they want. Conventional wisdom is that the odds of acquittal are better with a jury, outside of unusual cases (eg. an extremely unpopular defendant). Describing trial by jury as "less modern" is also bizarre, the trial by jury is a specifically enumerated right in the Constitution because of legal abuses in Great Britain in the 1500s and 1600s. It exists to protect defendants by placing the decision ultimately in the hands of members of the community, rather than a single political appointee.

tzs 3y ago

> What I find really interesting is that the man has so far not been found guilty. So he is factually innocent, yet still has seemingly all basic human rights stripped from him. He's not been found guilty of the crimes that he has been charged with. But he also was not jailed for this crimes. He was under house arrest. He's in jail because he violated the terms of his house arrest. > Now I know that "Innocent until proven guilty" is a euro-socialist concept which does not apply to the rightfully detained people in the glorious US of A, because the modern and infallible justice system spearheaded by its brillant and impartial police force would never even think of making any errors. It appears that most countries sometimes jail people pre-trial. Here are some statistics on pre-trail jailing around the world [1]. Among the countries mentioned in that with pre-trail jailing are: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, American Samoa (USA), Andorra, Angola, Anguilla (UK), Antigua & Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Aruba (Netherlands), Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bermuda (UK), Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Cayman Islands (UK), Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Comoros, Congo (Republic of), Cook Islands (NZ), Costa Rica, Cote d’Ivoire, Croatia, Curacao (Netherlands), Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Estonia, Ethiopia, Faeroes (Denmark), Fiji, Finland, French Polynesia (Fr), Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Gibraltar (UK), Greece, Greenland (Denmark), Grenada, Guadeloupe (France), Guam (USA), Guatemala, Guernsey (UK), Guinea (Republic of), Guinea Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hong Kong (China), Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Isle of Man (UK), Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jersey (UK), Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kiribati, Korea (Republic of), Kosovo, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macau (China), Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Martinique (France), Mauritania, Mauritius, Mayotte (France), Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nauru, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, North Macedonia, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico (USA), Qatar, Reunion (France), Romania, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome e Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Sint Maarten (Neth), Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sri Lanka, St Kitts & Nevis, St Lucia, Sudan, Suriname, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, U.S.A., UK: England & Wales, UK: Northern Ireland, UK: Scotland, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands (UK), Virgin Islands (USA), Yemen, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. Note that this list is missing some countries that do pre-trail jailing, such as France. France is in the PDF but I extracted the list by copy/paste from the PDF to text and then cleaned it up with some regular expressions, and some countries in the paste ended up formatted different enough from the others that my cleanup mistook them for headers or something. [1] https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/downloads/world_pre-trial_list_4th_edn_final.pdf https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/...