3 ms·

You just made my point: Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians, barrel length for semi-automatic ones and magazine size is heavly limited (the former min,

by hef19898 3y ago

You just made my point: Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians, barrel length for semi-automatic ones and magazine size is heavly limited (the former min, the latter max limits). The result: A shit ton of less gun violence and mass shootings. So yes, everyone else has it figured out. Only the US insists on being the real world version of the movie wild west. You want to wear tacticool gear and camo, fire automatic weapons? Join the armed forces. That so makes SpecOps cos olay so much harder and requires discipline, regulations and includes the risl of being shot at by equally trained people in active shooting wars. Ranting at the range and posting on YouTube is much easier in comparison, that is true.

dmoy 3y ago
> Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians Automatic firearms are illegal for not rich civilians in the US. It's perfectly legal to go but a machine gun, they just start at like $20k. But regardless, the amount of crime from legal machine guns is like two crimes in 90 years.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Your run the mill AR-15 style rifle is illegal in most of Europe (barrel length) and magazine capacity is limited to 10 in Germany (you can legally buy HK415/416, the HK improved versions in 5.56/7.62 of the AR-15). Gun diacussions with American si weirder than speed limit discussions with Germans.
  - dmoy 3y ago
    Sure, but those are also like ~2% of homicides in the US, and not automatic. It's like literally 3x less than knives. AR-15 is a Boogeyman/trap for gun discussions, because it's a rounding error when looking at the whole issue of violence in the US.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Screw the exact model used. In number of gun deatshy mass shootings and the like the US is leading. Unless you want to dispute that simple fact. But hey, you do you, I am happy were I am knowing not every weirdo might have an arsenal at home his aon might take to my kids school or my office one day because he got up on the wrong foot.
      - lazide 3y ago
        That’s frankly media driven fear mongering (likely self re-enforcing, or as the media notes ‘Mass shooting contagion’), not a legitimate threat (though we seem to be t trying to make it one!) which is the point of the discussion. It’s literally not even in the top 10 for how people die at work. You’re far more likely to die in the drive to work, 100x more likely. Or from Covid. Or frankly, most anything else.
      - rs999gti 3y ago
        > not every weirdo Sounds like a mental health issue and not a firearms issue
      - dmoy 3y ago
        > Screw the exact model used. In number of gun deatshy mass shootings and the like the US is leading. For sure, but almost exclusively due to handguns.
      - dmoy 3y ago
        To be clear I'm not talking about specific model I mean rifles as a whole (of which AR-15s and their derivatives are a subset) are a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of homicides in the US.
  - Clubber 3y ago
    Do you think if they lifted those bans, how long do you think it would take for Germany to turn into say Chicago?
    - hef19898 3y ago
      No idea. Also not relevant, those bans will never be lifted. We are currently discussing dress codes at public schools so. Make of that whatever you want.
      - Clubber 3y ago
        I wouldn't speculate on that question if I were taking your position either.
    - rs999gti 3y ago
      Does DE have drug gangs fighting for control of territory? The other gun related crimes are offshoots of this or mentally ill people with access to guns.
      - lazide 3y ago
        Somewhat, though they jumped straight to hand grenades in some places I believe. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66059738.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66059738.amp] [https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/binaries/content/assets/governance-and-global-affairs/isga/the-illegal-use-of-hand-grenades.pdf https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/binaries/content/assets/go...].
lazide 3y ago
You seem to have rather missed my point. Plenty of those countries you can get automatic weapons. Several of them completely legally, including literal AK-47’s. Switzerland issues automatic weapons in some situations, for keeping at home. Plenty of those countries have notable gun (or other) violence issues - though they often categorize it differently. Most of them don’t. In Mexico mere possession of a semi-automatic gun is a 20 year felony. I forget the penalty for machine guns, but it’s higher. Does Mexico have it under control? Do you think those laws are helping or hurting the situation? Machine guns are so heavily regulated in the US that only two times since 1934 have legal ones been used in crimes - the most recent in ‘84 by a police officer using his department issued one. Yet, it’s a common problem that criminals are using modified weapons (easy to do, especially with cheap kits ordered online or from China), and police are finding them more and more often during busts - everywhere. Not just in the US. The US is about as far from the actual Wild West as you can get. Unless the FBI was running background checks on every purchase back in the 1880’s anyway. But it does get all the press.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Mexico is basically in a civil war with drug cartels, whom are getting their arms from the US! Illegally of course, but still. Good that you bring up Switzerland. Because they have a long history of a militia (!) based military. So, Switzerland is actually a good example what "a well regulated militia" looks like. Glad you see that. Regarding statistics on gun violence in general, if ypu see no problem because war zones have bigger issues says a lot.
  - lazide 3y ago
    most American gun violence (the vast majority) tends to happen in areas that can easily be classified as urban war zones for the same reasons as much of the violence in Mexico. If you’ve been to the areas of Oakland, Chicago, Salinas, etc. that show up a lot, it’s frankly clear that they are. Much if the South American violence never ends up in an identifiable statistic. Especially in places like Guatemala. As always with statistics, the collection and context matters a lot.
chayesfss 3y ago
[dead]

dmoy 3y ago

> Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians Automatic firearms are illegal for not rich civilians in the US. It's perfectly legal to go but a machine gun, they just start at like $20k. But regardless, the amount of crime from legal machine guns is like two crimes in 90 years.

hef19898 3y ago
Your run the mill AR-15 style rifle is illegal in most of Europe (barrel length) and magazine capacity is limited to 10 in Germany (you can legally buy HK415/416, the HK improved versions in 5.56/7.62 of the AR-15). Gun diacussions with American si weirder than speed limit discussions with Germans.
- dmoy 3y ago
  Sure, but those are also like ~2% of homicides in the US, and not automatic. It's like literally 3x less than knives. AR-15 is a Boogeyman/trap for gun discussions, because it's a rounding error when looking at the whole issue of violence in the US.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Screw the exact model used. In number of gun deatshy mass shootings and the like the US is leading. Unless you want to dispute that simple fact. But hey, you do you, I am happy were I am knowing not every weirdo might have an arsenal at home his aon might take to my kids school or my office one day because he got up on the wrong foot.
    - lazide 3y ago
      That’s frankly media driven fear mongering (likely self re-enforcing, or as the media notes ‘Mass shooting contagion’), not a legitimate threat (though we seem to be t trying to make it one!) which is the point of the discussion. It’s literally not even in the top 10 for how people die at work. You’re far more likely to die in the drive to work, 100x more likely. Or from Covid. Or frankly, most anything else.
    - rs999gti 3y ago
      > not every weirdo Sounds like a mental health issue and not a firearms issue
    - dmoy 3y ago
      > Screw the exact model used. In number of gun deatshy mass shootings and the like the US is leading. For sure, but almost exclusively due to handguns.
    - dmoy 3y ago
      To be clear I'm not talking about specific model I mean rifles as a whole (of which AR-15s and their derivatives are a subset) are a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of homicides in the US.
- Clubber 3y ago
  Do you think if they lifted those bans, how long do you think it would take for Germany to turn into say Chicago?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    No idea. Also not relevant, those bans will never be lifted. We are currently discussing dress codes at public schools so. Make of that whatever you want.
    - Clubber 3y ago
      I wouldn't speculate on that question if I were taking your position either.
  - rs999gti 3y ago
    Does DE have drug gangs fighting for control of territory? The other gun related crimes are offshoots of this or mentally ill people with access to guns.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Somewhat, though they jumped straight to hand grenades in some places I believe. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66059738.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66059738.amp] [https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/binaries/content/assets/governance-and-global-affairs/isga/the-illegal-use-of-hand-grenades.pdf https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/binaries/content/assets/go...].

lazide 3y ago

You seem to have rather missed my point. Plenty of those countries you can get automatic weapons. Several of them completely legally, including literal AK-47’s. Switzerland issues automatic weapons in some situations, for keeping at home. Plenty of those countries have notable gun (or other) violence issues - though they often categorize it differently. Most of them don’t. In Mexico mere possession of a semi-automatic gun is a 20 year felony. I forget the penalty for machine guns, but it’s higher. Does Mexico have it under control? Do you think those laws are helping or hurting the situation? Machine guns are so heavily regulated in the US that only two times since 1934 have legal ones been used in crimes - the most recent in ‘84 by a police officer using his department issued one. Yet, it’s a common problem that criminals are using modified weapons (easy to do, especially with cheap kits ordered online or from China), and police are finding them more and more often during busts - everywhere. Not just in the US. The US is about as far from the actual Wild West as you can get. Unless the FBI was running background checks on every purchase back in the 1880’s anyway. But it does get all the press.

hef19898 3y ago
Mexico is basically in a civil war with drug cartels, whom are getting their arms from the US! Illegally of course, but still. Good that you bring up Switzerland. Because they have a long history of a militia (!) based military. So, Switzerland is actually a good example what "a well regulated militia" looks like. Glad you see that. Regarding statistics on gun violence in general, if ypu see no problem because war zones have bigger issues says a lot.
- lazide 3y ago
  most American gun violence (the vast majority) tends to happen in areas that can easily be classified as urban war zones for the same reasons as much of the violence in Mexico. If you’ve been to the areas of Oakland, Chicago, Salinas, etc. that show up a lot, it’s frankly clear that they are. Much if the South American violence never ends up in an identifiable statistic. Especially in places like Guatemala. As always with statistics, the collection and context matters a lot.

chayesfss 3y ago

[dead]