4 ms·

Is it so? Besides the US, everybody else has it figured out, one way or the other...

by hef19898 3y ago

lazide 3y ago
Really? Name one. I’ve looked into Regs in a number of countries, and they all either outright ban nearly everything unless you work for the gov’t, or have the same issues. The US just has massive amounts of complaining and BS going on in every area, so it’s more visible. In Switzerland, for one example, you’d just hear some griping from dude at the range, not be able to link to a an hour long YouTube video on it. The tricky part here is the US is essentially 53+ different entities legally, with large and meaningful differences between each of them and some overlap. Less than an hours drive can take you from ‘no magazines over 10 rounds or years in jail’ to ‘60 round drums on sale, don’t forget to pickup a few up after renting a couple machine guns and sending a few thousand rounds down range’. With no real border in between. In the rest of the world, those are national borders, with customs inspections. You can pay some folks in Vietnam to be able to shoot RPGs no issues, and Finland/Scandinavia is generally permissive with firearms for instance. And if you know someone in Russia (especially Chechnya I hear) and have money, no issues getting pretty much anything you want and the paperwork to say it’s all good. Good luck doing that in their neighbors or as a normal Joe though.
- hef19898 3y ago
  You just made my point: Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians, barrel length for semi-automatic ones and magazine size is heavly limited (the former min, the latter max limits). The result: A shit ton of less gun violence and mass shootings. So yes, everyone else has it figured out. Only the US insists on being the real world version of the movie wild west. You want to wear tacticool gear and camo, fire automatic weapons? Join the armed forces. That so makes SpecOps cos olay so much harder and requires discipline, regulations and includes the risl of being shot at by equally trained people in active shooting wars. Ranting at the range and posting on YouTube is much easier in comparison, that is true.
  - dmoy 3y ago
    > Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians Automatic firearms are illegal for not rich civilians in the US. It's perfectly legal to go but a machine gun, they just start at like $20k. But regardless, the amount of crime from legal machine guns is like two crimes in 90 years.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Your run the mill AR-15 style rifle is illegal in most of Europe (barrel length) and magazine capacity is limited to 10 in Germany (you can legally buy HK415/416, the HK improved versions in 5.56/7.62 of the AR-15). Gun diacussions with American si weirder than speed limit discussions with Germans.
      - dmoy 3y ago
        Sure, but those are also like ~2% of homicides in the US, and not automatic. It's like literally 3x less than knives. AR-15 is a Boogeyman/trap for gun discussions, because it's a rounding error when looking at the whole issue of violence in the US.
        hef19898 3y ago
        Screw the exact model used. In number of gun deatshy mass shootings and the like the US is leading. Unless you want to dispute that simple fact. But hey, you do you, I am happy were I am knowing not every weirdo might have an arsenal at home his aon might take to my kids school or my office one day because he got up on the wrong foot.
        lazide 3y ago
        That’s frankly media driven fear mongering (likely self re-enforcing, or as the media notes ‘Mass shooting contagion’), not a legitimate threat (though we seem to be t trying to make it one!) which is the point of the discussion. It’s literally not even in the top 10 for how people die at work. You’re far more likely to die in the drive to work, 100x more likely. Or from Covid. Or frankly, most anything else.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Ok, in Russia you could for a while buy attack helicopters whole sale. Chechnya is a dormer war zone, as are the Balkans and even Serbia implemented gun control measures after one (!) school shooting... What's next? Military grade weapons readily available in Afghanistan and some African countries?
  - lazide 3y ago
    Let’s see. South Africa. Well, most of Africa. Most of the Middle East. Anywhere in central or South America (with one or two small exceptions). Large swathes of Asia, except for China, and portions of India. I’m pointing out that ‘everyone else has it under control’ is actually ‘a few Western European, a handful of ex Western European colonies, and a handful of totalitarian dictatorships have it under control’. And even then, not as under control or as different as the PR would necessarily lead you to believe. The US gets the mindshare and publicity though.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Africa, famous for being home to multiple civil wars, child soldiers, war lords rebels and the like since the early 60s. Sure, that is supposed to be the bench mark for the US (in all honesty, it seems to be fitting sometimes so). Asia, well, South East Asia ia similar from Vietnam to Laos (a lot of their guns were importes by the Americans during the Vietnam war). Some countries are military dictatorships with opposing rebel groups. So yes, my point stands, all countries that actually are in position (read no internal or external armed conflicts, no civip war like situations, no destabilized government) have it under control. The US gets rightly called out for it, as the only (presumely) developed democracy with this kind of problem.
      - lazide 3y ago
        Hahaha, ho man. Well, keep moving those goalposts and not responding to any of my actual points buddy. Good luck!
        3y ago
Rebelgecko 3y ago
IMO not really. For example some countries (eg Germany) have different rules for which parts of guns are serialized and regulated. So it's possible to get a barrel for a legal rifle and replace the lower receiver with fully automatic HK416 parts, which are available over the counter without any licensing or other restrictions.

Is it so? Besides the US, everybody else has it figured out, one way or the other...

Really? Name one. I’ve looked into Regs in a number of countries, and they all either outright ban nearly everything unless you work for the gov’t, or have the same issues. The US just has massive amounts of complaining and BS going on in every area, so it’s more visible. In Switzerland, for one example, you’d just hear some griping from dude at the range, not be able to link to a an hour long YouTube video on it. The tricky part here is the US is essentially 53+ different entities legally, with large and meaningful differences between each of them and some overlap. Less than an hours drive can take you from ‘no magazines over 10 rounds or years in jail’ to ‘60 round drums on sale, don’t forget to pickup a few up after renting a couple machine guns and sending a few thousand rounds down range’. With no real border in between. In the rest of the world, those are national borders, with customs inspections. You can pay some folks in Vietnam to be able to shoot RPGs no issues, and Finland/Scandinavia is generally permissive with firearms for instance. And if you know someone in Russia (especially Chechnya I hear) and have money, no issues getting pretty much anything you want and the paperwork to say it’s all good. Good luck doing that in their neighbors or as a normal Joe though.

hef19898 3y ago
You just made my point: Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians, barrel length for semi-automatic ones and magazine size is heavly limited (the former min, the latter max limits). The result: A shit ton of less gun violence and mass shootings. So yes, everyone else has it figured out. Only the US insists on being the real world version of the movie wild west. You want to wear tacticool gear and camo, fire automatic weapons? Join the armed forces. That so makes SpecOps cos olay so much harder and requires discipline, regulations and includes the risl of being shot at by equally trained people in active shooting wars. Ranting at the range and posting on YouTube is much easier in comparison, that is true.
- dmoy 3y ago
  > Automatic firearms are illegal for civilians Automatic firearms are illegal for not rich civilians in the US. It's perfectly legal to go but a machine gun, they just start at like $20k. But regardless, the amount of crime from legal machine guns is like two crimes in 90 years.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Your run the mill AR-15 style rifle is illegal in most of Europe (barrel length) and magazine capacity is limited to 10 in Germany (you can legally buy HK415/416, the HK improved versions in 5.56/7.62 of the AR-15). Gun diacussions with American si weirder than speed limit discussions with Germans.
    - dmoy 3y ago
      Sure, but those are also like ~2% of homicides in the US, and not automatic. It's like literally 3x less than knives. AR-15 is a Boogeyman/trap for gun discussions, because it's a rounding error when looking at the whole issue of violence in the US.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Screw the exact model used. In number of gun deatshy mass shootings and the like the US is leading. Unless you want to dispute that simple fact. But hey, you do you, I am happy were I am knowing not every weirdo might have an arsenal at home his aon might take to my kids school or my office one day because he got up on the wrong foot.
        lazide 3y ago
        That’s frankly media driven fear mongering (likely self re-enforcing, or as the media notes ‘Mass shooting contagion’), not a legitimate threat (though we seem to be t trying to make it one!) which is the point of the discussion. It’s literally not even in the top 10 for how people die at work. You’re far more likely to die in the drive to work, 100x more likely. Or from Covid. Or frankly, most anything else.
hef19898 3y ago
Ok, in Russia you could for a while buy attack helicopters whole sale. Chechnya is a dormer war zone, as are the Balkans and even Serbia implemented gun control measures after one (!) school shooting... What's next? Military grade weapons readily available in Afghanistan and some African countries?
- lazide 3y ago
  Let’s see. South Africa. Well, most of Africa. Most of the Middle East. Anywhere in central or South America (with one or two small exceptions). Large swathes of Asia, except for China, and portions of India. I’m pointing out that ‘everyone else has it under control’ is actually ‘a few Western European, a handful of ex Western European colonies, and a handful of totalitarian dictatorships have it under control’. And even then, not as under control or as different as the PR would necessarily lead you to believe. The US gets the mindshare and publicity though.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Africa, famous for being home to multiple civil wars, child soldiers, war lords rebels and the like since the early 60s. Sure, that is supposed to be the bench mark for the US (in all honesty, it seems to be fitting sometimes so). Asia, well, South East Asia ia similar from Vietnam to Laos (a lot of their guns were importes by the Americans during the Vietnam war). Some countries are military dictatorships with opposing rebel groups. So yes, my point stands, all countries that actually are in position (read no internal or external armed conflicts, no civip war like situations, no destabilized government) have it under control. The US gets rightly called out for it, as the only (presumely) developed democracy with this kind of problem.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Hahaha, ho man. Well, keep moving those goalposts and not responding to any of my actual points buddy. Good luck!
      - 3y ago

Rebelgecko 3y ago

IMO not really. For example some countries (eg Germany) have different rules for which parts of guns are serialized and regulated. So it's possible to get a barrel for a legal rifle and replace the lower receiver with fully automatic HK416 parts, which are available over the counter without any licensing or other restrictions.