4 ms·

The US may be in a more or less similar situation. We have a lack of affordable housing in every state, have underbuilt for decades, etc.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago
I don't want to underplay the housing crisis in the US; the problems are serious. But the situation in Canada is like taking all of that and tripling it.
llm_nerd 3y ago
There is a problem in many parts of the world right now, and the same housing problem can be cited in almost all of the West. The scale of the problem is dramatically different. In the US, like much of the world, there are the expensive areas and then the less expensive areas, and people migrate accordingly. Gentrification happens and people have to move further afield, etc. I see listings for extraordinary homes in various towns in the US for prices that are absolutely dreamy (not like ghettos, but nice little towns). In a remote world, the US has astonishingly attainable options throughout the union. In Canada, far-flung garbage towns have million dollar bungalows and $3000 rents. There are no inexpensive options anywhere, no matter how far out you're willing to move just to have a place to live. The country literally has politicians telling people to loan a bedroom. Yet in the face of actually falling home building and recurring disasters, the governing party has doubled down on an immigration rate that exceeds every other developed country (and I'm not talking about per capita, I'm talking about in absolute numbers!). It's unbelievable.
- DoreenMichele 3y ago
  I was homeless for nearly 6 years. I was willing to relocate to anywhere in the western US to make my life work and get back into housing and spent a few years researching my options. I'm not convinced the "affordable housing" people imagine is available if you go far enough out in the US is as available as is popularly presumed.
  - llm_nerd 3y ago
    I don't have to imagine anything. I can pull up Zillow right now and find some incredible homes priced at what would be considered very cheap here almost anywhere in the US. Even San Francisco is looking pretty economical! Outside of the major centres homes are amazingly inexpensive. Obviously this doesn't mean everyone in all situations can find a home, but the scale of the problem is just dramatically different.
    - DoreenMichele 3y ago
      I had this same argument with people over and over on HN while I was homeless. If you want to actually move there and live there, looking into those "cheap" homes frequently is a case of they aren't actually livable and need many thousands of dollars of work, among other issues.
      - llm_nerd 3y ago
        You are predicating this entire discussion on your own personal experience. I have no idea what your income, credit rating, job, etc is, but as mentioned obviously people fall through the cracks and have trouble anywhere, at literally any time in human history. I mean, you mentioned that you looked for six years, yet even the US notion of a lack of "affordable" (which again, is a relative term) housing is a recent phenomena. No, I'm not looking at teardowns. Many of these are absolutely gorgeous, extremely well-appointed homes. This is more than just touristy noise at this point: I am seriously considering relocating to the US because of what is happening in Canada, and have looked in depth at available homes across the nation.
        DoreenMichele 3y ago
        You've basically said "my personal firsthand experience trumps yours" when my personal firsthand experience includes living in multiple places in the US and yours apparently includes living in Canada and looking up info about the US online and concluding life here might be better for you. I wish you luck in finding your bliss, but this seems like an unconstructive discussion. PS: What's on the internet is not necessarily a comprehensive and accurate picture of reality on the ground.
- Fervicus 3y ago
  I'll leave this here: https://www.centuryinitiative.ca/ https://www.centuryinitiative.ca/
  - abledon 3y ago
    Interesting to think at 100M inhabitants, indigenous issues wont' be a major issue anymore... tiny squeak in the dark.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  IMO the cost of living US kind of averages out these days. House price gradient is pretty slim, and the large metros typically have less expensive services due to local competition/robust economies, vs the rural areas where medical care can be extremely pricey, food prices are outrageous, and no local competition to sustain more than one option for most staples. Thank you for coming to my TED talk on location-based compensation is wage theft.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    The big equalizer is the opportunity cost of not being able to find an income stream if you lose your current one, or the cost of not being able to find better income streams. Call it volatility, and it is not easily calculable as a number. I can get a job move to cheap Topeka, KS, but how much does the volatility cost me if I lose that job or I get laid off, etc.
  - Thorrez 3y ago
    >rural areas where [...] food prices are outrageous How? How can rural people afford it? Are you talking about rural places that are tourist locations? Do you have any data on this? It seems wrong to me.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago

I don't want to underplay the housing crisis in the US; the problems are serious. But the situation in Canada is like taking all of that and tripling it.

llm_nerd 3y ago

There is a problem in many parts of the world right now, and the same housing problem can be cited in almost all of the West. The scale of the problem is dramatically different. In the US, like much of the world, there are the expensive areas and then the less expensive areas, and people migrate accordingly. Gentrification happens and people have to move further afield, etc. I see listings for extraordinary homes in various towns in the US for prices that are absolutely dreamy (not like ghettos, but nice little towns). In a remote world, the US has astonishingly attainable options throughout the union. In Canada, far-flung garbage towns have million dollar bungalows and $3000 rents. There are no inexpensive options anywhere, no matter how far out you're willing to move just to have a place to live. The country literally has politicians telling people to loan a bedroom. Yet in the face of actually falling home building and recurring disasters, the governing party has doubled down on an immigration rate that exceeds every other developed country (and I'm not talking about per capita, I'm talking about in absolute numbers!). It's unbelievable.

DoreenMichele 3y ago
I was homeless for nearly 6 years. I was willing to relocate to anywhere in the western US to make my life work and get back into housing and spent a few years researching my options. I'm not convinced the "affordable housing" people imagine is available if you go far enough out in the US is as available as is popularly presumed.
- llm_nerd 3y ago
  I don't have to imagine anything. I can pull up Zillow right now and find some incredible homes priced at what would be considered very cheap here almost anywhere in the US. Even San Francisco is looking pretty economical! Outside of the major centres homes are amazingly inexpensive. Obviously this doesn't mean everyone in all situations can find a home, but the scale of the problem is just dramatically different.
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    I had this same argument with people over and over on HN while I was homeless. If you want to actually move there and live there, looking into those "cheap" homes frequently is a case of they aren't actually livable and need many thousands of dollars of work, among other issues.
    - llm_nerd 3y ago
      You are predicating this entire discussion on your own personal experience. I have no idea what your income, credit rating, job, etc is, but as mentioned obviously people fall through the cracks and have trouble anywhere, at literally any time in human history. I mean, you mentioned that you looked for six years, yet even the US notion of a lack of "affordable" (which again, is a relative term) housing is a recent phenomena. No, I'm not looking at teardowns. Many of these are absolutely gorgeous, extremely well-appointed homes. This is more than just touristy noise at this point: I am seriously considering relocating to the US because of what is happening in Canada, and have looked in depth at available homes across the nation.
      - DoreenMichele 3y ago
        You've basically said "my personal firsthand experience trumps yours" when my personal firsthand experience includes living in multiple places in the US and yours apparently includes living in Canada and looking up info about the US online and concluding life here might be better for you. I wish you luck in finding your bliss, but this seems like an unconstructive discussion. PS: What's on the internet is not necessarily a comprehensive and accurate picture of reality on the ground.
Fervicus 3y ago
I'll leave this here: https://www.centuryinitiative.ca/ https://www.centuryinitiative.ca/
- abledon 3y ago
  Interesting to think at 100M inhabitants, indigenous issues wont' be a major issue anymore... tiny squeak in the dark.
candiddevmike 3y ago
IMO the cost of living US kind of averages out these days. House price gradient is pretty slim, and the large metros typically have less expensive services due to local competition/robust economies, vs the rural areas where medical care can be extremely pricey, food prices are outrageous, and no local competition to sustain more than one option for most staples. Thank you for coming to my TED talk on location-based compensation is wage theft.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  The big equalizer is the opportunity cost of not being able to find an income stream if you lose your current one, or the cost of not being able to find better income streams. Call it volatility, and it is not easily calculable as a number. I can get a job move to cheap Topeka, KS, but how much does the volatility cost me if I lose that job or I get laid off, etc.
- Thorrez 3y ago
  >rural areas where [...] food prices are outrageous How? How can rural people afford it? Are you talking about rural places that are tourist locations? Do you have any data on this? It seems wrong to me.