3 ms·

Guys, if someone dangled something in front of you with the initial impression that you could have one, and you wanted it, only later to find out that you actua

by reason 15y ago

Guys, if someone dangled something in front of you with the initial impression that you could have one, and you wanted it, only later to find out that you actually can't have it and that those who could have it are "intelligent and witty", implying that you are not, then I think it's pretty safe to say that you'd run home, cook something similar up and run back to show that you have one now too. In fact, after reading the original article, I felt a bit slighted and thought to myself "fine, I'll just build it myself".

54mf 15y ago
Your metaphor is wholly flawed. This would be like if you wanted to get in to a restaurant because of the great food, decor, and excellent ties the waiters were wearing, but couldn't get in. So you went next door and created your own restaurant with the same recipes, decor, and ties on the waiters, but let anyone in. Building something with similar functionality is one thing; building a stem-to-stern carbon copy is just low class.
- reason 15y ago
  So, what's wrong with that? I'd eat at the second restaurant in a heartbeat if getting into the first is too much of a hassle. You would too.
  - 54mf 15y ago
    You make an awful lot of assumptions about how others would act. I definitely wouldn't eat at the second restaurant, because they'd be scumbags for ripping off the first restaurant and I wouldn't want to support them. Exclusivity is not a license to, nor a justification for, outright copying.
    - reason 15y ago
      Right, so if I built an Augusta National for the public, I'd be considered a scumbag.
      - 54mf 15y ago
        Have you not heard of a closed beta? Also, like I mentioned elsewhere, exclusivity is not a license to rip off.
      - ForrestN 15y ago
        @54mf: What if the restaurant in question told you that the reason for excluding you wasn't a "closed beta" but rather that you aren't witty or intelligent enough?
      - envex 15y ago
        54mf: It's not a closed beta though, It's a closed network.
    - eloisius 15y ago
      Do you also refuse to use Linux because Linus Torvalds is a scumbag who ripped off AT&T?
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
- unalone 15y ago
  No, it would be like if a restaurant passed out flyers advertising its great food, decor, and excellent ties, with a footnote at the bottom saying "PS: only beautiful, successful, wealthy people are allowed in, and that doesn't include you." When the second restaurant opened, promoting its inclusionary nature and affordable prices, I'd eat there every day for a week, because fuck those first guys. Fuck 'em for thinking that their making something halfway interesting entitles them to superiority, and fuck 'em for thinking the right way to show off something interesting is to emphasize how you're not allowed to try it out. David Karp wanted a blogging interface that made blogging easier and more beautiful and more diverse. Several years later, Tumblr is one of the largest sites on the Internet. I don't like the direction it ultimately took, but I admire the hell out of David for releasing his cool idea to users who then turned it into something incredible and wholly unpredictable. I also find it amusing that we're calling Svtble "great", when it's just a simple, well-made tool with one neat organizational technique – it's like Quietwrite with a todo list attached. Simple and well-made is much appreciated, but you don't get to be a douchebag until you've actually made something significant. Or you can make that thing and remain a nice and humble guy, because the two are not mutually fucking exclusive.
  - kenkam 15y ago
    Agreed. If only the landing page said: "This is a network of bloggers by invitation only while we iron out the kinks. Sign up to get notified when we are open to the public." Then this would have turned out much more differently. Whether he wanted to open it to the public is another question though.
whalesalad 15y ago
I think most people feel the same way. This elitist circlejerk stuff is annoying. Dustin has a way of stating what is supposed to be gleaned. If you meet someone who is very charismatic and cool and has a great circle of friends, you might say to yourself "wow, that guy is pretty cool." On the other hand, if you meet someone who's kind of cool but then they flat out tell you "yeah me and my friends are pretty cool, we're kind of a big deal" then you're gonna think they're douchebags. It's false social proof. It's fake. In a similar light: If this "network" would have been put forth as some kind of synergistic combination of great content, cool ideas, new technologies, etc.. then the community would automatically judge them on those merits and give them the cool stamp. In this circumstance, however, this "elite" blogging network has, without any real honest credibility[1] just made the rest of the confident hackers in this world irritated. I don't think Nate set out specifically to plagarize Dustin's work. Rather, I think his primary goal was to send the message that so many people on HN and in our community think. And that is the message put forth by the parent comment to mine. [1] That being said, it's obvious that some of these guys are big parts of our current and modern web/startup ecosystem. I'm not faulting them specifically.

by reason 15y ago

54mf 15y ago

Your metaphor is wholly flawed. This would be like if you wanted to get in to a restaurant because of the great food, decor, and excellent ties the waiters were wearing, but couldn't get in. So you went next door and created your own restaurant with the same recipes, decor, and ties on the waiters, but let anyone in. Building something with similar functionality is one thing; building a stem-to-stern carbon copy is just low class.

reason 15y ago
So, what's wrong with that? I'd eat at the second restaurant in a heartbeat if getting into the first is too much of a hassle. You would too.
- 54mf 15y ago
  You make an awful lot of assumptions about how others would act. I definitely wouldn't eat at the second restaurant, because they'd be scumbags for ripping off the first restaurant and I wouldn't want to support them. Exclusivity is not a license to, nor a justification for, outright copying.
  - reason 15y ago
    Right, so if I built an Augusta National for the public, I'd be considered a scumbag.
    - 54mf 15y ago
      Have you not heard of a closed beta? Also, like I mentioned elsewhere, exclusivity is not a license to rip off.
    - ForrestN 15y ago
      @54mf: What if the restaurant in question told you that the reason for excluding you wasn't a "closed beta" but rather that you aren't witty or intelligent enough?
    - envex 15y ago
      54mf: It's not a closed beta though, It's a closed network.
  - eloisius 15y ago
    Do you also refuse to use Linux because Linus Torvalds is a scumbag who ripped off AT&T?
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
unalone 15y ago
No, it would be like if a restaurant passed out flyers advertising its great food, decor, and excellent ties, with a footnote at the bottom saying "PS: only beautiful, successful, wealthy people are allowed in, and that doesn't include you." When the second restaurant opened, promoting its inclusionary nature and affordable prices, I'd eat there every day for a week, because fuck those first guys. Fuck 'em for thinking that their making something halfway interesting entitles them to superiority, and fuck 'em for thinking the right way to show off something interesting is to emphasize how you're not allowed to try it out. David Karp wanted a blogging interface that made blogging easier and more beautiful and more diverse. Several years later, Tumblr is one of the largest sites on the Internet. I don't like the direction it ultimately took, but I admire the hell out of David for releasing his cool idea to users who then turned it into something incredible and wholly unpredictable. I also find it amusing that we're calling Svtble "great", when it's just a simple, well-made tool with one neat organizational technique – it's like Quietwrite with a todo list attached. Simple and well-made is much appreciated, but you don't get to be a douchebag until you've actually made something significant. Or you can make that thing and remain a nice and humble guy, because the two are not mutually fucking exclusive.
- kenkam 15y ago
  Agreed. If only the landing page said: "This is a network of bloggers by invitation only while we iron out the kinks. Sign up to get notified when we are open to the public." Then this would have turned out much more differently. Whether he wanted to open it to the public is another question though.

whalesalad 15y ago

I think most people feel the same way. This elitist circlejerk stuff is annoying. Dustin has a way of stating what is supposed to be gleaned. If you meet someone who is very charismatic and cool and has a great circle of friends, you might say to yourself "wow, that guy is pretty cool." On the other hand, if you meet someone who's kind of cool but then they flat out tell you "yeah me and my friends are pretty cool, we're kind of a big deal" then you're gonna think they're douchebags. It's false social proof. It's fake. In a similar light: If this "network" would have been put forth as some kind of synergistic combination of great content, cool ideas, new technologies, etc.. then the community would automatically judge them on those merits and give them the cool stamp. In this circumstance, however, this "elite" blogging network has, without any real honest credibility[1] just made the rest of the confident hackers in this world irritated. I don't think Nate set out specifically to plagarize Dustin's work. Rather, I think his primary goal was to send the message that so many people on HN and in our community think. And that is the message put forth by the parent comment to mine. [1] That being said, it's obvious that some of these guys are big parts of our current and modern web/startup ecosystem. I'm not faulting them specifically.