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> problem started when apple upgraded iOS to 16.4+ version (27.3.2023 exactly 162 days ago) Every single comment blames DJI, but shouldn't it be Apple's respon

by bambax 3y ago

> problem started when apple upgraded iOS to 16.4+ version (27.3.2023 exactly 162 days ago) Every single comment blames DJI, but shouldn't it be Apple's responsibility to not break existing apps with iOS "upgrades"? Apple is free to decide they don't care one bit about retro compatibility, but it's just weird we would simply accept that and think of updates like a kind of act of God that just happens.

the__alchemist 3y ago
Same thought. I don't blame DJI for not playing this fast moving ballgame; stability matters. I suspect there are cultural issues at play between firmware and phone devs. I'd like to see conventional wisdom on regular updates being critical, ostensibly for security, going away.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Exec orders aren’t the same as culture issues among workers
kmlx 3y ago
> but shouldn't it be Apple's responsibility to not break existing apps with iOS "upgrades"? according to the comments in the thread it doesn’t work even on ios 15.7?
comboy 3y ago
It depends on what exactly happened. Sometimes documentation will say stuff like "order of execution of these methods can be random" which if ignored may lead to a bug after a perfectly compatible upgrade.
galad87 3y ago
If the app breaks every minor iOS update I would start wondering on what exactly are DJI coding practices.
Oras 3y ago
You’re not wrong, however it is still making DJI support questionable.
crazygringo 3y ago
On the one hand, there are always going to be changes with upgrades that break things, even if not intended -- especially when apps inadvertently rely on undocumented API behavior. But on the other hand, that's a well-known difference between Apple and Microsoft philosophies. Microsoft bends over backwards to support old software (e.g. hard-coding old buggy/undefined behavior for specific legacy apps), while Apple fully expects app developers to maintain their software and upgrade it as necessary with each new iOS release, using new versions of libraries etc. I don't think either is "correct", they're just different philosophies. The Microsoft way leads to incredibly complicated OS behavior that must be hell on the Windows devs. But if you develop an iOS app, you should know this going into it, that you'll need to budget for a certain level of occasional maintenance or risk that the app breaks.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  The that cultural difference causes some pretty important secondary differences too - for example, Microsoft's way enables software to be a product - written once, working approximately forever; Apple's way pretty much forces a subscription model.
- howinteresting 3y ago
  The Microsoft way is absolutely better than the Apple way. Platform holders, Apple in particular, reap enormous profits. They have at least some basic responsibility here. It's hard? Tough shit, software is hard. Start putting in the work for your 400k TC. This is also why Apple will never be a long-term gaming platform for anything other than gacha pull and otherwise exploitative games. I can still play the original Dark Souls with DSFix on modern Windows (or Linux via Proton for that matter). The game is timeless and should never be lost to lazy platform holders.
  - s3p 3y ago
    Microsoft is not shipping mobile phone software! I fault them for breaking older apps, yes, but this is not always the case. I have an app that is 7 years old and it hasn't been updated for any phone since the iphone 7. I see the black bars when I open it. It's a drink making app that since got taken off the app store, but I'll never delete it because it was a one time purchase and got me access to the easiest explanations for making drinks I have ever seen in my entire life. And every drink is there. Apple has never, I repeat *never*, broken it for me. It still opens. Your mileage may vary. I think backwards compatibility is important, but we can't expect Apple to do a quality test on every last app on the app store for hours and hours making sure it opens on every phone on every software version.
Brosper 3y ago
We don't know what is exact issue. I wouldn't jude it so quickly.
basisword 3y ago
Apps rarely break on dot releases of iOS. If you’re using private API’s though when you’re explicitly told not to, shit happens. I’d bet my house on this being a DJI issue as opposed to Apple breaking a public API in a dot release.
- blep-arsh 3y ago
  Audio software tends to experience breakage even after minor iOS releases. For example, Apple have once changed the in-memory format of MIDI sysex messages passed to the app in a dot release. Segfaults ensued. The particular callback wasn't documented well and some OS behaviors had to be inferred. Apple still went through with the change, not noticing or maybe not caring about consequences.

by bambax 3y ago

the__alchemist 3y ago

Same thought. I don't blame DJI for not playing this fast moving ballgame; stability matters. I suspect there are cultural issues at play between firmware and phone devs. I'd like to see conventional wisdom on regular updates being critical, ostensibly for security, going away.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
Exec orders aren’t the same as culture issues among workers

kmlx 3y ago

> but shouldn't it be Apple's responsibility to not break existing apps with iOS "upgrades"? according to the comments in the thread it doesn’t work even on ios 15.7?

comboy 3y ago

It depends on what exactly happened. Sometimes documentation will say stuff like "order of execution of these methods can be random" which if ignored may lead to a bug after a perfectly compatible upgrade.

galad87 3y ago

If the app breaks every minor iOS update I would start wondering on what exactly are DJI coding practices.

Oras 3y ago

You’re not wrong, however it is still making DJI support questionable.

crazygringo 3y ago

On the one hand, there are always going to be changes with upgrades that break things, even if not intended -- especially when apps inadvertently rely on undocumented API behavior. But on the other hand, that's a well-known difference between Apple and Microsoft philosophies. Microsoft bends over backwards to support old software (e.g. hard-coding old buggy/undefined behavior for specific legacy apps), while Apple fully expects app developers to maintain their software and upgrade it as necessary with each new iOS release, using new versions of libraries etc. I don't think either is "correct", they're just different philosophies. The Microsoft way leads to incredibly complicated OS behavior that must be hell on the Windows devs. But if you develop an iOS app, you should know this going into it, that you'll need to budget for a certain level of occasional maintenance or risk that the app breaks.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
The that cultural difference causes some pretty important secondary differences too - for example, Microsoft's way enables software to be a product - written once, working approximately forever; Apple's way pretty much forces a subscription model.
howinteresting 3y ago
The Microsoft way is absolutely better than the Apple way. Platform holders, Apple in particular, reap enormous profits. They have at least some basic responsibility here. It's hard? Tough shit, software is hard. Start putting in the work for your 400k TC. This is also why Apple will never be a long-term gaming platform for anything other than gacha pull and otherwise exploitative games. I can still play the original Dark Souls with DSFix on modern Windows (or Linux via Proton for that matter). The game is timeless and should never be lost to lazy platform holders.
- s3p 3y ago
  Microsoft is not shipping mobile phone software! I fault them for breaking older apps, yes, but this is not always the case. I have an app that is 7 years old and it hasn't been updated for any phone since the iphone 7. I see the black bars when I open it. It's a drink making app that since got taken off the app store, but I'll never delete it because it was a one time purchase and got me access to the easiest explanations for making drinks I have ever seen in my entire life. And every drink is there. Apple has never, I repeat *never*, broken it for me. It still opens. Your mileage may vary. I think backwards compatibility is important, but we can't expect Apple to do a quality test on every last app on the app store for hours and hours making sure it opens on every phone on every software version.

Brosper 3y ago

We don't know what is exact issue. I wouldn't jude it so quickly.

basisword 3y ago

Apps rarely break on dot releases of iOS. If you’re using private API’s though when you’re explicitly told not to, shit happens. I’d bet my house on this being a DJI issue as opposed to Apple breaking a public API in a dot release.

blep-arsh 3y ago
Audio software tends to experience breakage even after minor iOS releases. For example, Apple have once changed the in-memory format of MIDI sysex messages passed to the app in a dot release. Segfaults ensued. The particular callback wasn't documented well and some OS behaviors had to be inferred. Apple still went through with the change, not noticing or maybe not caring about consequences.