5 ms·

I wonder how this compares to the AR4 robotic arm ( https://www.anninrobotics.com https://www.anninrobotics.com ). The AR4 isn't truly hardware open source, bu

I wonder how this compares to the AR4 robotic arm ( https://www.anninrobotics.com https://www.anninrobotics.com ). The AR4 isn't truly hardware open source, but my understanding is that it's software agnostic. My biggest question is the full cost for the PAROL6. Their BOM link is 404. I can build the AR4 completely for less than $2000, and for education, that's a very small price for a semi-useful, full 6 axis arm. (Currently, to give a comparison, one of my suppliers is offering an educational cobot solution for $40,000. Yes, it's truly "industrial," and is a complete self-contained solution, though it's only capable of 2kg if I recall correctly. This was what they were pushing for the educational market.) As someone who is trying to implement robotic training in education, with a budget that approaches zero, I just need something cheap that students can hack/break/fix without costing a fortune in maintenance costs. One of the cool thing about the AR4 is that it can come as a complete kit, either as 3d printable or aluminum frame. and they work with Steppers Online to provide the steppers and drivers as one package. If you work for a school system, this type of solution solves a lot of logistical issues. That said, if this thing is truly low cost, let's say under $1000, for it's capabilities, it could be a very nice project.

nulld3v 3y ago
The BOM file is in the repo I think: https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/main/PAROL6_BOM_6_9_2023.pdf https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/mai... Looks like they forgot to update the link.
- Cilvic 3y ago
  Does someone know how much this amounts to roughly?
  - blopp99 3y ago
    I was wondering this, theres a comercial non opensource arm called Dobot, I wanted to know how they both compared
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
monkmartinez 3y ago
Here is the link to the most recent BOM: https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/main/PAROL6_BOM_6_9_2023.pdf https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/mai...
RobotToaster 3y ago
>The AR4 isn't truly hardware open source Being pedantic this isn't either, there's no CAD source files, only stl files. Hopefully that's just an oversight.
- qingcharles 3y ago
  For someone that hasn't used a CAD package in 30 years, can you explain the importance of this for me? Is a STL like a JPG is to a RAW in a camera?
  - beachy 3y ago
    More like source code vs object code in a compiled computer program.
  - sterlind 3y ago
    STL is to CAD as JPG is to SVG basically.
  - RobotToaster 3y ago
    An STL is just a mesh, a collection of joined up points. It's like exporting a JPEG of a word document, you can print it but editing is a huge pain. For instance STLs don't support curves, so they're approximated with lots of short lines. Usually CAD interchange is either in STEP or the program's proprietary format.
  - LegitShady 3y ago
    The STL is a mesh file that is used to generate g-code that a 3d printer or CNC machine understands. The CAD file, whichever format its in, is going to have all the solid modelling information and be much more useful if you want to make changes.
  - namibj 3y ago
    Freeware vs. Open-Source. PNG vs. SVG.
  - hadlock 3y ago
    You would expect STEP files in an open source project. This allows you to change the motor interface to use locally available stepper motors, adapters, or other modifications. STL is an intermediary, "rendered" 3D STEP file, ready for conversion into final custom gcode assembled specifically for your machine and any accessories/user specific procedural steps/initiation procedure etc. STEP is the sheet music, MP3 is the STL and the waveform is the gcode.
Arcanum-XIII 3y ago
I’m curious, what kind of project could you do once you built it ? My major issue is that I can easily build stuff. The puzzle keep my brain on the job - but then I don’t know what to do after I’ve checked it works :D (i.e my various RC project are there, but then what ? I’ve built a rover, can do some automated stuff, but not very useful a the end…)
wigiv 3y ago
Seems like an open-source/DIY or kit (requiring some assembly) for educational applications is great in the context of a class or project where building/fixing/upgrading the robot is the point, and where 3D printing is readily available. If the main purpose is for the robot to do something - the DIY approach is more likely to suffer issues that, without support, may discourage students because they're fussing with/fixing the bot instead of doing the thing. Out of curiosity, what's the $40k kit you mentioned? Educational packages are all over the place (some seem to be price-gouging, frankly) but the low-end (in terms of payload + reach) of commercial/industrial cobots is getting pretty affordable.
- sgnelson 3y ago
  You're completely right about the DIY vs. Industrial issue. And the reality is that I need both, a DIY solution to teach students "this is how they work, these are the fundamentals, this is how to fix them/change them/operate them." And I also need one that can be hooked up to other machines, and able to be a true industrial robot (not so much with weight capacity, but with reach), and be a true integrated system to show students: "That other one was a toy, now here's how to use a real one in industry." But I basically now operate in Bureaucratic Hell, and I have to figure out a way to get the equipment to teach my students. And due to changes in how my organization operates, ironically enough, I've found that getting the "professional/educational/industrial" products is often not the right decision. One of the worst things that can happen is that we buy a $250,000 piece of equipment. The administration will never ever budget for the cost of maintenance, consumables, tooling, training, everything else required to successfully operate it. Within a year, you're stuck with a $250,000 piece of equipment sitting in a corner collecting dust, that is always shown to VIP's on tours as the latest in greatest in what we offer. Oh, and it's so expensive, we're not going to allow students to use it anyway, because we can't let them break it. And it's amazing, they won't have funding for that $100 tool I need to teach the students and use everyday, but every year they'll manage to find $100,000 to spend, a week before the end of the fiscal year, which we have to spend immediately, but it can only be spent on certain items, like the things that I don't actually need. Welcome to public technical education in America. (Sorry, obviously, you unintentionally touched a nerve.) But if I can get something that costs $2000, well, I can either fix it myself, or better yet have the students do it I will take something that I know is sustainable, that students can actually put their hands on and operate over that white elephant every day of the week. In reality, this is all moot. No matter the cost, my budget is effectively zero at the moment. But I can hope. The $40k was a Universal Robots UR3e I believe. The vendor put it on a cart as a portable, self-contained system.

nulld3v 3y ago

The BOM file is in the repo I think: https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/main/PAROL6_BOM_6_9_2023.pdf https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/mai... Looks like they forgot to update the link.

Cilvic 3y ago
Does someone know how much this amounts to roughly?
- blopp99 3y ago
  I was wondering this, theres a comercial non opensource arm called Dobot, I wanted to know how they both compared

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

monkmartinez 3y ago

Here is the link to the most recent BOM: https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/main/PAROL6_BOM_6_9_2023.pdf https://github.com/PCrnjak/PAROL6-Desktop-robot-arm/blob/mai...

RobotToaster 3y ago

>The AR4 isn't truly hardware open source Being pedantic this isn't either, there's no CAD source files, only stl files. Hopefully that's just an oversight.

qingcharles 3y ago
For someone that hasn't used a CAD package in 30 years, can you explain the importance of this for me? Is a STL like a JPG is to a RAW in a camera?
- beachy 3y ago
  More like source code vs object code in a compiled computer program.
- sterlind 3y ago
  STL is to CAD as JPG is to SVG basically.
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  An STL is just a mesh, a collection of joined up points. It's like exporting a JPEG of a word document, you can print it but editing is a huge pain. For instance STLs don't support curves, so they're approximated with lots of short lines. Usually CAD interchange is either in STEP or the program's proprietary format.
- LegitShady 3y ago
  The STL is a mesh file that is used to generate g-code that a 3d printer or CNC machine understands. The CAD file, whichever format its in, is going to have all the solid modelling information and be much more useful if you want to make changes.
- namibj 3y ago
  Freeware vs. Open-Source. PNG vs. SVG.
- hadlock 3y ago
  You would expect STEP files in an open source project. This allows you to change the motor interface to use locally available stepper motors, adapters, or other modifications. STL is an intermediary, "rendered" 3D STEP file, ready for conversion into final custom gcode assembled specifically for your machine and any accessories/user specific procedural steps/initiation procedure etc. STEP is the sheet music, MP3 is the STL and the waveform is the gcode.

Arcanum-XIII 3y ago

I’m curious, what kind of project could you do once you built it ? My major issue is that I can easily build stuff. The puzzle keep my brain on the job - but then I don’t know what to do after I’ve checked it works :D (i.e my various RC project are there, but then what ? I’ve built a rover, can do some automated stuff, but not very useful a the end…)

wigiv 3y ago

Seems like an open-source/DIY or kit (requiring some assembly) for educational applications is great in the context of a class or project where building/fixing/upgrading the robot is the point, and where 3D printing is readily available. If the main purpose is for the robot to do something - the DIY approach is more likely to suffer issues that, without support, may discourage students because they're fussing with/fixing the bot instead of doing the thing. Out of curiosity, what's the $40k kit you mentioned? Educational packages are all over the place (some seem to be price-gouging, frankly) but the low-end (in terms of payload + reach) of commercial/industrial cobots is getting pretty affordable.

sgnelson 3y ago
You're completely right about the DIY vs. Industrial issue. And the reality is that I need both, a DIY solution to teach students "this is how they work, these are the fundamentals, this is how to fix them/change them/operate them." And I also need one that can be hooked up to other machines, and able to be a true industrial robot (not so much with weight capacity, but with reach), and be a true integrated system to show students: "That other one was a toy, now here's how to use a real one in industry." But I basically now operate in Bureaucratic Hell, and I have to figure out a way to get the equipment to teach my students. And due to changes in how my organization operates, ironically enough, I've found that getting the "professional/educational/industrial" products is often not the right decision. One of the worst things that can happen is that we buy a $250,000 piece of equipment. The administration will never ever budget for the cost of maintenance, consumables, tooling, training, everything else required to successfully operate it. Within a year, you're stuck with a $250,000 piece of equipment sitting in a corner collecting dust, that is always shown to VIP's on tours as the latest in greatest in what we offer. Oh, and it's so expensive, we're not going to allow students to use it anyway, because we can't let them break it. And it's amazing, they won't have funding for that $100 tool I need to teach the students and use everyday, but every year they'll manage to find $100,000 to spend, a week before the end of the fiscal year, which we have to spend immediately, but it can only be spent on certain items, like the things that I don't actually need. Welcome to public technical education in America. (Sorry, obviously, you unintentionally touched a nerve.) But if I can get something that costs $2000, well, I can either fix it myself, or better yet have the students do it I will take something that I know is sustainable, that students can actually put their hands on and operate over that white elephant every day of the week. In reality, this is all moot. No matter the cost, my budget is effectively zero at the moment. But I can hope. The $40k was a Universal Robots UR3e I believe. The vendor put it on a cart as a portable, self-contained system.