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H1Bs aren’t second hand citizens, and canceling the H1B program would trigger an immediate humanitarian crisis, not to mention completely shut off America’s mai
by Zetice 3y ago
H1Bs aren’t second hand citizens, and canceling the H1B program would trigger an immediate humanitarian crisis, not to mention completely shut off America’s main advantage in innovation; the idea that we don’t care where you’re from if you’re great at what you do.
- _dujt 3y ago> we don’t care where you’re from if you’re great at what you do. Yes, that’s true but isn’t what is happening here. They’re not bringing in H1Bs for their talent, they’re firing US workers so they bring in H1Bs to do the same job, but cheaper. Break up ALL big tech.
- Zetice 3y agoIf they’re not better, the company will get worse, and be overtaken eventually. In my experience, they’re plenty good enough, often overqualified.
- ecf 3y agoAll well and good but I never mentioned performance. Of course they’re able to do the job, no doubts there. But the bottom line is US companies are firing US workers not because they need to, but because they want an excuse to hire cheaper workers through an immigration program.
- Zetice 3y agoThere is nothing at all special about a US worker. Welcome to the world, where people who aren’t from or in the US also need to feed their families, and have just as much a right to do so as Americans do.
- whiddershins 3y agoSo what stops them from doing it in their host country? And if their host country is non functional what should be done about that? Are you arguing we should bring back colonialism? Or are you arguing that all the most capable people should live in one rich country and the rest of the world should be an endless slum? Maybe all these capable people should work to reform and improve the conditions of the country where they are.
- Zetice 3y agoNothing, and many do. Many also are free to come here.
- vacuity 3y agoWelcome to the world, where people who are from the US need to feed their families, and have just as much a right to do so as immigrants do. See the issue? Just because we accept immigrants and they benefit the economy doesn't mean everyone is magically happy. Do you think the US should support every poor person in the world? Can it?
- Zetice 3y agoYes and yes. People want to contribute, people want to work, the more people in the US the better off the US is, full stop.
- vacuity 3y agoYou'd be fine with us going from a population of 3XX million to, say, 3 billion? I feel like there'd be a few problems with that. Can we annex other countries then? I'm not trying to be facetious; I genuinely don't understand how "immigrants good" translates to "literally anyone who is willing to work should be allowed and there won't be any logistical issues because why would there be".
- Zetice 3y agoA reductio isn’t going to work here, sorry.
- enlightenedfool 3y agoThat may be the original idea, but the focus on the worker and ignoring their lives and family is brutal. Moving between jobs or location is difficult. Going outside the country may land people in trouble. It’s not slavery, but feels like one at times. Of course, it’s a choice, but they do live as second hand citizens.
- Zetice 3y agoNo, they do not, both because they’re not citizens at all, and that they’re still very highly paid, even though perhaps less than they should be.
- peteradio 3y agoHow would it create a humanitarian crisis?!
- Zetice 3y agoHalf a million people who wish to leave their country for America would no longer be able to. A great many of those people are operating out of necessity.
- vacuity 3y agoWhat, don't Americans need things too? The logical conclusion of "countries should support their people" is that the countries these people are emigrating from should support them. If a country like the US is doing that well for its people, it can afford to give aid to these other countries, maybe accept a portion of the immigrants. As it stands, it's kind of a lose-lose situation because who cares about caring for their people? Not the US or those countries that people are emigrating en masse from. It's not like the US has the sole responsibility or capability to care for everyone under the sun. That's the reality of the situation, if nothing else.
- Zetice 3y agoIt is not "reality" to claim that Americans would lose out if more immigrants came to the US.
- vacuity 3y agoI'm clearly not against immigrants because I don't like immigration. It's also not grounded in reality for you to say that Americans can support arbitrary numbers of immigrants because the economy will magically make things work out.
- Zetice 3y agoIt absolutely is grounded in reality, because in reality billions of people wouldn’t move to the US. You’re trying to claim realism but then applying absurd hyperbole.
- mikewarot 3y agoI'm sorry, I thought the idiom was more widely used[1] Generally, I'm opposed to any type of class distinction. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-class_citizen# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-class_citizen#