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I think you missed my main point: That people are different. I have not doubted that there are people who like the more rigid structure which the current maint

I think you missed my main point: That people are different. I have not doubted that there are people who like the more rigid structure which the current maintainers push for. I actually mentioned that. But the success of PHP comes from the people who like PHP the way it was. Empowering them to write their own web projects with the least amount of code and bloat.

jw1224 3y ago
> But the success of PHP comes from the people who like PHP the way it was I'm sure that was the case for many years, but I believe the successful resurgence of modern PHP is coming from the people who want to see PHP actively improving. Not those who like PHP the way it was! PHP got a nasty reputation thanks to things like the "Fractal of Bad Design" site. Modern PHP has resolved (effectively) all of those early critiques. The ongoing success of PHP comes from it continually improving :)
- JonathanBeuys 3y ago
  Where do you see ongoing success? That people still maintain old PHP projects? That is what I said - maintaining old code is done by people who are paid for it and like rigid structures. But people who build the future rarely use PHP now. Look at jobs at YC startups: https://www.ycombinator.com/jobs https://www.ycombinator.com/jobs It is rare to see PHP mentione anywhere. It's mostly Python and JavaScript now. Look at how lean Python's syntax is compared to PHP's new obsession with "public static function {}" insida a \namespace\which\is\not\needed\when\you\have\a\module\system tagged as "#[AllowDynamicProperties]". None of that is needed in Python: https://www.online-python.com/Da8nQUlAEp https://www.online-python.com/Da8nQUlAEp And look at how backward compatible JavaScript is. You still can run code from 20 years ago just fine. The fractal of bad design post resonated with people who are paid to code. Who have to adhere to "best practices" and who don't mind spending time on bureaucracy. All makers I know just shrugged it off with "None of that get's in my way".

jw1224 3y ago

> But the success of PHP comes from the people who like PHP the way it was I'm sure that was the case for many years, but I believe the successful resurgence of modern PHP is coming from the people who want to see PHP actively improving. Not those who like PHP the way it was! PHP got a nasty reputation thanks to things like the "Fractal of Bad Design" site. Modern PHP has resolved (effectively) all of those early critiques. The ongoing success of PHP comes from it continually improving :)

JonathanBeuys 3y ago
Where do you see ongoing success? That people still maintain old PHP projects? That is what I said - maintaining old code is done by people who are paid for it and like rigid structures. But people who build the future rarely use PHP now. Look at jobs at YC startups: https://www.ycombinator.com/jobs https://www.ycombinator.com/jobs It is rare to see PHP mentione anywhere. It's mostly Python and JavaScript now. Look at how lean Python's syntax is compared to PHP's new obsession with "public static function {}" insida a \namespace\which\is\not\needed\when\you\have\a\module\system tagged as "#[AllowDynamicProperties]". None of that is needed in Python: https://www.online-python.com/Da8nQUlAEp https://www.online-python.com/Da8nQUlAEp And look at how backward compatible JavaScript is. You still can run code from 20 years ago just fine. The fractal of bad design post resonated with people who are paid to code. Who have to adhere to "best practices" and who don't mind spending time on bureaucracy. All makers I know just shrugged it off with "None of that get's in my way".