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I mean, no kidding. Half the people I work with are H-1B. The program takes jobs away from Americans and should be illegal. I want to work with people from my

I mean, no kidding. Half the people I work with are H-1B. The program takes jobs away from Americans and should be illegal. I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world.

seaman1921 3y ago
if you want to pick who you want to work with, maybe start your own company and then you will probably figure out yourself that you need the H-1Bs
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Because you compete with other businesses. If labor regulations allow companies to do X, and one or more companies actually do X, then others have to follow suite and do X or be undercut. It’s simply the prisoner’s dilemma but the prisoners are companies and exploiting labor is defecting.
hejalajsbsb 3y ago
Are you asserting that there is enough American talent to satisfy the job market and that they are being unjustly suppressed? It’s an interesting idea. Do you have any reading relevant to the topic that supports this assertion?
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  Absolutely. And I would go even further and say that many of the people we hire from overseas aren't even that good. They're just cheap labor and that's what makes them attractive.
- dudul 3y ago
  Maybe the article that created this thread?
mattrighetti 3y ago
> I want to work with people from my town Nobody forces you to work with people from across the world, quit your job and find one that only hires people from your town
- booleandilemma 3y ago
  Sounds impractical to me. In fact every company I've worked for is flooded with non-Americans. It would be tough to find a company that only hires Americans. I think a better solution is to end H-1B. Nobody is forcing people to come here.
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    SpaceX apparently
  - polski-g 3y ago
    Work for defense/intelligence contractors. 100% of the people they hire are Americans.
  - mattrighetti 3y ago
    > Nobody is forcing people to come here. That's the whole point, that's why H1B is apparently still very popular. People will take lower salaries just to get to the US because they apparently want to move there at all cost and have a chance to stay.
- iithd-1198 3y ago
  What’s the point of a country? To protect and empower its people or to use them to empower a rich few at the top? As it is, the H1B system only benefits H1Bs in a limited manner at the cost of American citizens. All so that rich investors can make more money.
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
    The latter. To think otherwise is to ignore thousands of years of human history that has consistently proved it through many different forms of government. Whatever the initial idea of any new system of government might be, after a few generations it degenerates into serving the elites first and foremost. The problem is human nature.
iepathos 3y ago
US has historically low unemployment past several years so idk who you think they are taking jobs away from but most let go are almost immediately re-hired elsewhere. With little to no slack in the local unemployment pool it only makes sense to hire from elsewhere.
Zetice 3y ago
Why are Americans more deserving of jobs then other people?
- dudul 3y ago
  Because this is in America.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - paint 3y ago
    I know you're joking but some people actually think that way and it's so disgusting. No borders no nations no walls
    - dudul 3y ago
      I am not joking. Countries are made to protect their citizens first.
      - Zetice 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dudul 3y ago
        People immigrated there because it was needed at the time. What was good centuries ago may not apply today. Yes permanent residents in the US/Iceland/Australia/Spain/whatever should get priority over temporary visa holders in their respective country. This is the whole point of countries.
        Zetice 3y ago
        No, people immigrated here because it was better here, and it was better here because people immigrated. And no, permanent residents do not have anything about them that is inherently more deserving of anything. That is in no way what a country is for. A country provides social services to people in exchange for some control, so as to keep order. If you give control, you get services. Land borders are not an important aspect of a country’s decision of who to provide services to, who that country can provide order to is.
ajmurmann 3y ago
> I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world. And I want to work with the brightest people from all over the world. I guess we are at an impasse and are best off leaving subjective preferences out...
- rcme 3y ago
  Do you want to work with them even if that means a lower salary? Surely, since you’re among the “brightest in the world” you understand that labor prices are set by supply and demand. The H1B process increases the labor supply and thus decreases the price of labor.
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    > since you’re among the “brightest in the world” I'm certainly not one of them, but love working with bright people. > you understand that labor prices are set by supply and demand. The H1B process increases the labor supply and thus decreases the price of labor. The pie isn't fixed. I believe it will grow and there will be more for everyone if we allow everyone to thrive. New people create demand and maybe reverb start some new companies. Further, the labor could also happen entirely in another country which would be much worse for US workers. IMO the biggest issue with H1B is that it restricts worker choice and thus creates a somewhat captive class of workers who can be paid less. The best way to solve this is to reduce constraints on H1B holders
    - rcme 3y ago
      That’s true. I concede productivity isn’t zero sum.
- bradlys 3y ago
  Brightest in the world definitely isn’t what H1B recruits on. It recruits on who is the most desperate to do hundreds of leetcode problems in order to stay in the country. Go figure, people who want to stay in the country will jump through some ridiculous hoops and we’re all worse for it. I have never found a reason to believe any folks on H1B are smarter than their non-H1B peers. By any stat, never seen it.
o1y32 3y ago
If you are looking for someone to blame for you not getting your dream job, blame it on employers instead of the government. Companies like Verizon and Wells Fargo almost never hire anyone on a visa. Go work for those companies. Oh wait, they do hire foreigners with a green card. Are you going to find a company that only hires US-born citizens like the requirement for the US President? Many countries offer work visas (for many good reasons), although they are often used in unintended ways. It is very much a stretch to say these programs shouldn't exist at all because they "take away" jobs. Also, if half of the people you work with are on H1B, very likely you are not in a midwest "town" with 3,000 population, but rather a decent metropolitan area with a large immigration population, and the company you work is of decent size. I wouldn't be surprised if even half of the Americans in your company relocated from a different "town". Finally, I like working with people that are productive and easy to communicate, instead of looking at which country they come from or their visa status. If anything that's my boss's concern. Therefore, if you want to actually see any change, maybe (1) become the CEO of your company, fire all H1B and only hire US citizens (2) join a different company (3) start your own company, or at least (4) call your senator and advocate for anti-immigration bills, or sue USCIS, instead of posting these useless and borderline racist comments on HN.
manuelabeledo 3y ago
> I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world. Too bad people from your town are not smart enough. Jokes aside, the irony of this assertion coming from an American is too rich. Wondering why "23andMe" was such a popular term not that long ago.
checker659 3y ago
These companies do business all over the world (read: take money away from other companies in those countries). I'm not sure why Google having a lot of people from other countries is bad if it makes money from those countries). (Btw, I see your point and am not necessarily criticizing it. However, you do see that these companies operate globally and having the workforce reflect that should be considered ok?)

seaman1921 3y ago

if you want to pick who you want to work with, maybe start your own company and then you will probably figure out yourself that you need the H-1Bs

2devnull 3y ago
Because you compete with other businesses. If labor regulations allow companies to do X, and one or more companies actually do X, then others have to follow suite and do X or be undercut. It’s simply the prisoner’s dilemma but the prisoners are companies and exploiting labor is defecting.

hejalajsbsb 3y ago

Are you asserting that there is enough American talent to satisfy the job market and that they are being unjustly suppressed? It’s an interesting idea. Do you have any reading relevant to the topic that supports this assertion?

booleandilemma 3y ago
Absolutely. And I would go even further and say that many of the people we hire from overseas aren't even that good. They're just cheap labor and that's what makes them attractive.
dudul 3y ago
Maybe the article that created this thread?

mattrighetti 3y ago

> I want to work with people from my town Nobody forces you to work with people from across the world, quit your job and find one that only hires people from your town

booleandilemma 3y ago
Sounds impractical to me. In fact every company I've worked for is flooded with non-Americans. It would be tough to find a company that only hires Americans. I think a better solution is to end H-1B. Nobody is forcing people to come here.
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  SpaceX apparently
- polski-g 3y ago
  Work for defense/intelligence contractors. 100% of the people they hire are Americans.
- mattrighetti 3y ago
  > Nobody is forcing people to come here. That's the whole point, that's why H1B is apparently still very popular. People will take lower salaries just to get to the US because they apparently want to move there at all cost and have a chance to stay.
iithd-1198 3y ago
What’s the point of a country? To protect and empower its people or to use them to empower a rich few at the top? As it is, the H1B system only benefits H1Bs in a limited manner at the cost of American citizens. All so that rich investors can make more money.
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 3y ago
  The latter. To think otherwise is to ignore thousands of years of human history that has consistently proved it through many different forms of government. Whatever the initial idea of any new system of government might be, after a few generations it degenerates into serving the elites first and foremost. The problem is human nature.

iepathos 3y ago

US has historically low unemployment past several years so idk who you think they are taking jobs away from but most let go are almost immediately re-hired elsewhere. With little to no slack in the local unemployment pool it only makes sense to hire from elsewhere.

Zetice 3y ago

Why are Americans more deserving of jobs then other people?

dudul 3y ago
Because this is in America.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- paint 3y ago
  I know you're joking but some people actually think that way and it's so disgusting. No borders no nations no walls
  - dudul 3y ago
    I am not joking. Countries are made to protect their citizens first.
    - Zetice 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - dudul 3y ago
        People immigrated there because it was needed at the time. What was good centuries ago may not apply today. Yes permanent residents in the US/Iceland/Australia/Spain/whatever should get priority over temporary visa holders in their respective country. This is the whole point of countries.
        Zetice 3y ago
        No, people immigrated here because it was better here, and it was better here because people immigrated. And no, permanent residents do not have anything about them that is inherently more deserving of anything. That is in no way what a country is for. A country provides social services to people in exchange for some control, so as to keep order. If you give control, you get services. Land borders are not an important aspect of a country’s decision of who to provide services to, who that country can provide order to is.

ajmurmann 3y ago

> I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world. And I want to work with the brightest people from all over the world. I guess we are at an impasse and are best off leaving subjective preferences out...

rcme 3y ago
Do you want to work with them even if that means a lower salary? Surely, since you’re among the “brightest in the world” you understand that labor prices are set by supply and demand. The H1B process increases the labor supply and thus decreases the price of labor.
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  > since you’re among the “brightest in the world” I'm certainly not one of them, but love working with bright people. > you understand that labor prices are set by supply and demand. The H1B process increases the labor supply and thus decreases the price of labor. The pie isn't fixed. I believe it will grow and there will be more for everyone if we allow everyone to thrive. New people create demand and maybe reverb start some new companies. Further, the labor could also happen entirely in another country which would be much worse for US workers. IMO the biggest issue with H1B is that it restricts worker choice and thus creates a somewhat captive class of workers who can be paid less. The best way to solve this is to reduce constraints on H1B holders
  - rcme 3y ago
    That’s true. I concede productivity isn’t zero sum.
bradlys 3y ago
Brightest in the world definitely isn’t what H1B recruits on. It recruits on who is the most desperate to do hundreds of leetcode problems in order to stay in the country. Go figure, people who want to stay in the country will jump through some ridiculous hoops and we’re all worse for it. I have never found a reason to believe any folks on H1B are smarter than their non-H1B peers. By any stat, never seen it.

o1y32 3y ago

If you are looking for someone to blame for you not getting your dream job, blame it on employers instead of the government. Companies like Verizon and Wells Fargo almost never hire anyone on a visa. Go work for those companies. Oh wait, they do hire foreigners with a green card. Are you going to find a company that only hires US-born citizens like the requirement for the US President? Many countries offer work visas (for many good reasons), although they are often used in unintended ways. It is very much a stretch to say these programs shouldn't exist at all because they "take away" jobs. Also, if half of the people you work with are on H1B, very likely you are not in a midwest "town" with 3,000 population, but rather a decent metropolitan area with a large immigration population, and the company you work is of decent size. I wouldn't be surprised if even half of the Americans in your company relocated from a different "town". Finally, I like working with people that are productive and easy to communicate, instead of looking at which country they come from or their visa status. If anything that's my boss's concern. Therefore, if you want to actually see any change, maybe (1) become the CEO of your company, fire all H1B and only hire US citizens (2) join a different company (3) start your own company, or at least (4) call your senator and advocate for anti-immigration bills, or sue USCIS, instead of posting these useless and borderline racist comments on HN.

manuelabeledo 3y ago

> I want to work with people from my town, not people from halfway across the world. Too bad people from your town are not smart enough. Jokes aside, the irony of this assertion coming from an American is too rich. Wondering why "23andMe" was such a popular term not that long ago.

checker659 3y ago

These companies do business all over the world (read: take money away from other companies in those countries). I'm not sure why Google having a lot of people from other countries is bad if it makes money from those countries). (Btw, I see your point and am not necessarily criticizing it. However, you do see that these companies operate globally and having the workforce reflect that should be considered ok?)