6 ms·

I suppose you live in the US, with only a couple of huge carriers. I live in Germany, I am French, travelling a lot between France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmar

by Loic 15y ago

I suppose you live in the US, with only a couple of huge carriers. I live in Germany, I am French, travelling a lot between France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Switzerland. I am so happy with the SIM card system. I can switch carrier if I want easily (swap the SIM card) but especially: I do not care when I travel which carrier my phone will pick. It will work, nothing to do and I know what it will cost in advance. I love SIM cards. Update: Keep reading the thread with very good comments about identity. The added benefit of the SIM card is that it is protecting/managing your identity on the network without a hard link between your phone and you.

stoolpigeon 15y ago
This I travel enough to see the benefits as well. Phones that handle multiple sim cards are also nice. I also view it as an added layer of security. My phone can't be connected to the network until the pin for my sim is entered. The ability to save data to the sim is also a nice feature. I don't really see any reason for them to go away.
- sepposade 15y ago
  Each phone could have a built in key for signing. You could tell operators to not allow any other phone except for yours (which has this key) to access your account. Not a problem.
  - jasonlotito 15y ago
    Though, going to a store and proving who you are just to change a phone would be annoying. Maybe we could automate this. For extra security, we could use something besides a username and password. Maybe, the phone company could give us something, and we could use that to identify ourselves. Something we have. Maybe we could get the manufacturers allow us to store the identifier in the phone itself, and the phone could read the id card, and tell the phone company "Hey, this guy is good people!" that way, the entire process is all automated. Good idea!
  - stoolpigeon 15y ago
    What happens here - is the phone itself becomes the sim card. That is troublesome on a number of levels. I'd rather push those functions to a little piece of plastic that is easy to move between handsets. "You could tell operators"... How and where? When I'm in Thailand on vacation, I want data but I don't want to have to worry about registering my phone - I just go to kiosk and get a sim. When I was in Ethiopia a few weeks ago getting a sim took a bit of work. I had to give them photos and some other documentation. A lot of governments are moving this way. Once it was done though, I had the sims I needed and the phone choices were wide open. Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle but in my experience the sim is what makes me free. The idea that the existence of a sim == being locked down comes from a broken telecom system not a technical limitation of the format.
    - joelhaasnoot 15y ago
      There are some countries you do have to give extra documentation, and often providers will rip you off by giving you more airtime only if you register. Funny you mention Ethiopia, the telecom there is completely state controlled, and it has been used to thwart opposition (listen in on calls, shut down complete SMS, etc). It's one of the many "remnants" of the communist regime. Supposedly Orange was coming in to manage and change that however...
  - rlpb 15y ago
    SIM cards are exactly this, with the added benefit of (almost) two factor authentication. If I have my SIM card, I can be reasonably confident that you can't pretend to be me. If phones managed keys, I'd be more worried that you've managed to copy my key somehow.
    - kamjam 15y ago
      Especially give the sheer number of apps out there and reports of apps doing more than they should, as well as users blindly installing apps with higher permissions than they actually require. This would get exploited very quickly no doubt.
- c1sc0 15y ago
  I'd love to see a pocket hub that will take multiple sims & route my calls transparently over WiFi/VoIP.
- Drbble 15y ago
  Tell one major problem with SIM is the ancient outdated hard locked data model, and phone software developers refusing to implement a proper merge when exposing both SIM and phone data in UI.
sepposade 15y ago
But you will pay outrageous roaming charges. Why should you? Would you accept roaming charges on Wi-Fi access when abroad?
- stoolpigeon 15y ago
  They wont pay roaming because they swap sims - 4th sentence.
- yread 15y ago
  Why would you pay roaming charges when you swap sim card for a local one? Besides it's not that bad in EU with roaming anymore http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/activities/roaming/tariffs/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/activities/roaming/t... Also, some operators allow to purchase "european data" - ie. unlimited european data roaming for cheap.
adeelk 15y ago
FYI, Birman lives in Russia.
c1sc0 15y ago
I don't think you love simcards, I think you love the freedom to switch & a simcard is just the way you get that freedom right now. From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers?
- PanMan 15y ago
  You don't have to reboot your phone (e.g. the iPhone doesn't need a reboot when switching SIM cards). But a lot of phones hide the SIM under the battery, and your phone won't keep running with its battery off.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. Actually from a UX perspective sim cards are a pretty strong solution because there is a clear and simple 1:1 mapping between a physical object and a carrier. That's as simple an UX as can be: if I want to use carrier A I use SIM A, if I want to use carrier B I use SIM B. > For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers? I don't know, do you? I don't. I just take out the iPhone's SIM tray, replace the SIM and put the tray back in.
  - geon 15y ago
    > Actually from a UX perspective sim cards are a pretty strong solution because there is a clear and simple 1:1 mapping between a physical object and a carrier. That's as simple an UX as can be: if I want to use carrier A I use SIM A, if I want to use carrier B I use SIM B. That must be why it's so common and popular to use physical tokens for the address list too. I really live to sift through the little plastic cards I keep in my pant pocket (careful not to lose one!) to find John Doe, insert it into the phone and reboot, just to make a phone call. Or not.
    - masklinn 15y ago
      Your nonalogy makes no sense whatsoever: * Addresses don't significantly impact the phone's behavior (and its costs), current ISP does * As I noted, you might want to get out more, phones don't need to reboot when changing SIM * Considering the number of people who criticize iPhones for not having a µSD slot, physical tokens do indeed seem trendy in crowds which need them

by Loic 15y ago

stoolpigeon 15y ago

This I travel enough to see the benefits as well. Phones that handle multiple sim cards are also nice. I also view it as an added layer of security. My phone can't be connected to the network until the pin for my sim is entered. The ability to save data to the sim is also a nice feature. I don't really see any reason for them to go away.

sepposade 15y ago
Each phone could have a built in key for signing. You could tell operators to not allow any other phone except for yours (which has this key) to access your account. Not a problem.
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  Though, going to a store and proving who you are just to change a phone would be annoying. Maybe we could automate this. For extra security, we could use something besides a username and password. Maybe, the phone company could give us something, and we could use that to identify ourselves. Something we have. Maybe we could get the manufacturers allow us to store the identifier in the phone itself, and the phone could read the id card, and tell the phone company "Hey, this guy is good people!" that way, the entire process is all automated. Good idea!
- stoolpigeon 15y ago
  What happens here - is the phone itself becomes the sim card. That is troublesome on a number of levels. I'd rather push those functions to a little piece of plastic that is easy to move between handsets. "You could tell operators"... How and where? When I'm in Thailand on vacation, I want data but I don't want to have to worry about registering my phone - I just go to kiosk and get a sim. When I was in Ethiopia a few weeks ago getting a sim took a bit of work. I had to give them photos and some other documentation. A lot of governments are moving this way. Once it was done though, I had the sims I needed and the phone choices were wide open. Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle but in my experience the sim is what makes me free. The idea that the existence of a sim == being locked down comes from a broken telecom system not a technical limitation of the format.
  - joelhaasnoot 15y ago
    There are some countries you do have to give extra documentation, and often providers will rip you off by giving you more airtime only if you register. Funny you mention Ethiopia, the telecom there is completely state controlled, and it has been used to thwart opposition (listen in on calls, shut down complete SMS, etc). It's one of the many "remnants" of the communist regime. Supposedly Orange was coming in to manage and change that however...
- rlpb 15y ago
  SIM cards are exactly this, with the added benefit of (almost) two factor authentication. If I have my SIM card, I can be reasonably confident that you can't pretend to be me. If phones managed keys, I'd be more worried that you've managed to copy my key somehow.
  - kamjam 15y ago
    Especially give the sheer number of apps out there and reports of apps doing more than they should, as well as users blindly installing apps with higher permissions than they actually require. This would get exploited very quickly no doubt.
c1sc0 15y ago
I'd love to see a pocket hub that will take multiple sims & route my calls transparently over WiFi/VoIP.
Drbble 15y ago
Tell one major problem with SIM is the ancient outdated hard locked data model, and phone software developers refusing to implement a proper merge when exposing both SIM and phone data in UI.

sepposade 15y ago

But you will pay outrageous roaming charges. Why should you? Would you accept roaming charges on Wi-Fi access when abroad?

stoolpigeon 15y ago
They wont pay roaming because they swap sims - 4th sentence.
yread 15y ago
Why would you pay roaming charges when you swap sim card for a local one? Besides it's not that bad in EU with roaming anymore http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/activities/roaming/tariffs/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/activities/roaming/t... Also, some operators allow to purchase "european data" - ie. unlimited european data roaming for cheap.

adeelk 15y ago

FYI, Birman lives in Russia.

c1sc0 15y ago

I don't think you love simcards, I think you love the freedom to switch & a simcard is just the way you get that freedom right now. From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers?

PanMan 15y ago
You don't have to reboot your phone (e.g. the iPhone doesn't need a reboot when switching SIM cards). But a lot of phones hide the SIM under the battery, and your phone won't keep running with its battery off.
masklinn 15y ago
> From a UX perspective the simcard is a pretty weak solution. Actually from a UX perspective sim cards are a pretty strong solution because there is a clear and simple 1:1 mapping between a physical object and a carrier. That's as simple an UX as can be: if I want to use carrier A I use SIM A, if I want to use carrier B I use SIM B. > For a starter, why do I have to reboot my phone to switch carriers? I don't know, do you? I don't. I just take out the iPhone's SIM tray, replace the SIM and put the tray back in.
- geon 15y ago
  > Actually from a UX perspective sim cards are a pretty strong solution because there is a clear and simple 1:1 mapping between a physical object and a carrier. That's as simple an UX as can be: if I want to use carrier A I use SIM A, if I want to use carrier B I use SIM B. That must be why it's so common and popular to use physical tokens for the address list too. I really live to sift through the little plastic cards I keep in my pant pocket (careful not to lose one!) to find John Doe, insert it into the phone and reboot, just to make a phone call. Or not.
  - masklinn 15y ago
    Your nonalogy makes no sense whatsoever: * Addresses don't significantly impact the phone's behavior (and its costs), current ISP does * As I noted, you might want to get out more, phones don't need to reboot when changing SIM * Considering the number of people who criticize iPhones for not having a µSD slot, physical tokens do indeed seem trendy in crowds which need them