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> You wouldn't pick it for your job interview's coding test if you had a choice (Python all the way there), I do actually pick it for several reasons. 1. I

by kxrm 3y ago

> You wouldn't pick it for your job interview's coding test if you had a choice (Python all the way there), I do actually pick it for several reasons. 1. I want to know if the environment I am going into is pragmatic about languages. If you are going to refuse to continue working with me over something so minor as PHP then we aren't a culture fit. 2. I want to showcase my best. I know this language in and out. It's the first language I learned and I have the greatest ease of building algorithms with it. I've had interviews where I was asked to do something with PHP that PHP did not support and I found ways to make it work. 3. In some ways I love the conversation that comes with positive interviews when using it. Oftentimes the interviewer isn't very familiar and it sparks discussion on the languages benefits and drawbacks further showcasing my skillset. Sure as we progress along in the interview process I will switch to whatever language the company uses primarily but if I get a choice I always choose PHP.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jalapenos 3y ago
That's a good point, I imagine doing that would screen out companies run by language snobs. My go to for this is to say "I don't think Typescript is needed most of the time". The snobs look at you like you just farted in their face. But having done some coding interviews where time and space complexity were a factor, I found it easier to succeed with Python.
- JuanPosadas 3y ago
  > "I don't think Typescript is needed most of the time This is a terrible example, typescript (especially in 2023) is basically free with most setups (including vanilla) and easy to ignore for velocity then optionally enforce typechecking later. A much better hill to die on would be large frameworks/tooling like react/angular/webpack.
  - jalapenos 3y ago
    Exactly. If the interviewer responds like that, they've told me the company culture, and I know to stay away.
aaviator42 3y ago
Your comment articulates my thoughts on PHP very succinctly. Especially the culture fit bit. PHP is so insanely pragmatic that if someone looks down on it due to false preconceived notions then they're not the kind of person I can probably work happily with anyway. It's also the thing I'm best at!
- oaiey 3y ago
  And they are humble. They know their state, the flaws in their language and the long problematic history they have. They cherish their languages but are not fanatics.
  - blowski 3y ago
    PHP has its fair share of snobbery as well. Non-framework devs look down on Symfony, who in turn look down on Laravel devs, and everybody looks down on WordPress devs.
    - fjfuvucucuc 3y ago
      I started out as a symfony snob. Got sick of writing java in PHP so I picked up laravel. Got sick of having to modify my code every time Taylor huffed some new shit so I started building things using WordPress. It's so refreshing knowing that my websites auto update themselves and I never have to update them unless there is a legitimate reason to do so. Backwards compatibility is the ONLY thing I care about in a framework. Life's too short to babysit some frameworks ideas of how my code should work ten years after building the damn thing.
      - hk1337 3y ago
        Symfony and Laravel have their proper usages. I used to be Symfony snob too but tried Laravel and I definitely see its strengths. Laravel was not the right choice with our homegrown, non-framework app, with an existing schema.
        3y ago
l5870uoo9y 3y ago
Not to nitpick but choosing a programming language isn't a minor decision nor is switching programming style, e.g. OOB vs FP. Of course I agree with the intend and I too want to work in pragmatic and explorative programming environments trying out different programming languages and styles depending on the project.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >Not to nitpick but choosing a programming language isn't a minor decision In the grand scheme of things, talking solely about software projects not life in general, it kind of is. Most modern languages, are interchangeable, and projects of most kinds have been done with all of them succesfully. As long as the programmers for the chosen language are available, and the libs you want are there, for startups doing some web backend for example, it doesn't really matter if it's Python, Ruby, JS/Node, PHP, C#, Go, Java, CL, Kotlin, Clojure, and so on.
  - sodapopcan 3y ago
    I don't think "interchangeable" is the right word here. In some cases, perhaps, but different languages have different idioms and, since you have Clojure on there, different paradigms. If the individual coming into the new language is diligent about learning how to properly work in it, then all is well. If they decide to try and force what they already know into the new language, that is problem. I've experienced the latter far more often than the former. If you're working for a feature factory, though, I guess it doesn't matter.
  - tacker2000 3y ago
    I disagree. There will be lots of considerations like ecosystems, long term support, ease to find developers, prior experience, etc…
    - coldtea 3y ago
      Probably missed the "As long as the programmers for the chosen language are available, and the libs you want are there" part.

by kxrm 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jalapenos 3y ago

That's a good point, I imagine doing that would screen out companies run by language snobs. My go to for this is to say "I don't think Typescript is needed most of the time". The snobs look at you like you just farted in their face. But having done some coding interviews where time and space complexity were a factor, I found it easier to succeed with Python.

JuanPosadas 3y ago
> "I don't think Typescript is needed most of the time This is a terrible example, typescript (especially in 2023) is basically free with most setups (including vanilla) and easy to ignore for velocity then optionally enforce typechecking later. A much better hill to die on would be large frameworks/tooling like react/angular/webpack.
- jalapenos 3y ago
  Exactly. If the interviewer responds like that, they've told me the company culture, and I know to stay away.

aaviator42 3y ago

Your comment articulates my thoughts on PHP very succinctly. Especially the culture fit bit. PHP is so insanely pragmatic that if someone looks down on it due to false preconceived notions then they're not the kind of person I can probably work happily with anyway. It's also the thing I'm best at!

oaiey 3y ago
And they are humble. They know their state, the flaws in their language and the long problematic history they have. They cherish their languages but are not fanatics.
- blowski 3y ago
  PHP has its fair share of snobbery as well. Non-framework devs look down on Symfony, who in turn look down on Laravel devs, and everybody looks down on WordPress devs.
  - fjfuvucucuc 3y ago
    I started out as a symfony snob. Got sick of writing java in PHP so I picked up laravel. Got sick of having to modify my code every time Taylor huffed some new shit so I started building things using WordPress. It's so refreshing knowing that my websites auto update themselves and I never have to update them unless there is a legitimate reason to do so. Backwards compatibility is the ONLY thing I care about in a framework. Life's too short to babysit some frameworks ideas of how my code should work ten years after building the damn thing.
    - hk1337 3y ago
      Symfony and Laravel have their proper usages. I used to be Symfony snob too but tried Laravel and I definitely see its strengths. Laravel was not the right choice with our homegrown, non-framework app, with an existing schema.
      - 3y ago

l5870uoo9y 3y ago

Not to nitpick but choosing a programming language isn't a minor decision nor is switching programming style, e.g. OOB vs FP. Of course I agree with the intend and I too want to work in pragmatic and explorative programming environments trying out different programming languages and styles depending on the project.

coldtea 3y ago
>Not to nitpick but choosing a programming language isn't a minor decision In the grand scheme of things, talking solely about software projects not life in general, it kind of is. Most modern languages, are interchangeable, and projects of most kinds have been done with all of them succesfully. As long as the programmers for the chosen language are available, and the libs you want are there, for startups doing some web backend for example, it doesn't really matter if it's Python, Ruby, JS/Node, PHP, C#, Go, Java, CL, Kotlin, Clojure, and so on.
- sodapopcan 3y ago
  I don't think "interchangeable" is the right word here. In some cases, perhaps, but different languages have different idioms and, since you have Clojure on there, different paradigms. If the individual coming into the new language is diligent about learning how to properly work in it, then all is well. If they decide to try and force what they already know into the new language, that is problem. I've experienced the latter far more often than the former. If you're working for a feature factory, though, I guess it doesn't matter.
- tacker2000 3y ago
  I disagree. There will be lots of considerations like ecosystems, long term support, ease to find developers, prior experience, etc…
  - coldtea 3y ago
    Probably missed the "As long as the programmers for the chosen language are available, and the libs you want are there" part.