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Don't sell Technology to Indian Businesses
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- asto 15y agoCompletely agree with the "don't want to pay for software" bit. Heck, they don't want to pay for ANYTHING. Pirated windows, pirated accounting software, cheapass website because they look for the cheapest deal... the list is endless.
- architgupta 15y agoMy intuition is if people can get away with piracy, they will do it. - SaaS is good as piracy is not a big problem. Small/Medium Enterprise don't see a huge benefit of paying for Technology. Its both a mindset and a cost issue. We do Tax Returns, so we see how margins are quite low for most Indian Businesses. Paying for software that can be pirated easily might tip them to a loss. Software cost isn't factored in as a cost of doing business.
- mehtapratiroop 15y ago@asto you are missing the point. Piracy is obviously a big problem. But it is a problem in practically every country. The issue here is that in India it is hard to sell technology products (SaaS or otherwise) because Indian businesses are unable to comprehend what technology can do for them. It boils down to the competence of the tech managers/evaluators at these orgs. Some of them are poor and they don't even know it.
- asto 15y agoIt doesn't matter what the underlying reasons are. The point is if you are going to invest resources in something that requires Indians to actually pay for it (regardless of payment model), you are taking a big risk. PS: I am saying "Indians" because I am quite familiar with the situation here. I am sure though, that things are quite similar in most "developing nations".
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- gizzlon 15y ago"Piracy is obviously a big problem. But it is a problem in practically every country." Inside businesses? Really? Don't think I have ever seen pirated software at the places I have worked, and I don't believe it's very common. I have seen people "borrowing" software to install on their personal computers, but that's something else. Is this just in Scandinavia?
- architgupta 15y agoPiracy is quite common in India (both Businesses and consumers). I think piracy in other Third World countries as well (anecdotal).
- mehtapratiroop 15y agoWell piracy is a problem for s/w industry in general. 'Borrowing' is a neat little alternative to the word 'piracy' :)
- asto 15y agoMindset over cost. Companies here do all sorts of things to avoid small costs. I've seen some wrangle with hosting their own email on a server they have already purchased or make do with a poor experience with shared hosts simply to avoid the cost of paying for google apps once they have more than 10 users. They pay their employees atleast Rs 25,000 a month and are fretting about Rs 250?
- free 15y agoI am not so sure. I see two problems in the current situation here. 1. Pricing. The cost of most software is comparable to its cost in U.S. A windows 7 professional edition costs around 8000 bucks, which I think is pretty high. I am sure most people would gladly pay if they thought it was reasonable. Same with books. 2. Convenience. Most people are wary of using their credit cards or debit cards online. For physical goods, there is Cash On Delivery which is working out pretty well for a lot of companies. Not sure what the alternative is for software thought. For example, look at Flipkart. They are killing it. Also could not make much out of the article.
- architgupta 15y ago- Cash on Delivery has a lot of issues. I won't elaborate but, customers refuse the sale later on (impulse buy regrets), delayed booking of revenue, costs around collecting and cash reconciliation. My post is mostly about - Indian Businesses and consumers don't pay for Technology Products. - If they want to pay, they don't have mechanisms to pay you online. - Most people aren't online. They are offline.
- free 15y agoAgain, I am not so sure if I agree with all your points here. >>Cash on Delivery has a lot of issues. I won't elaborate but, customers refuse the sale later on (impulse buy regrets), delayed booking of revenue, costs around collecting and cash reconciliation. So do other modes of payments. There will always be customers who will want to get a refund. As I said am not entirely sure what the best solution is for non-physical transactions. >>Indian Businesses and consumers don't pay for Technology Products. This a blanket statement. Maybe the types of businesses we interact with are very different. From my experience a lot of them are ready to pay well if they see the benefits. >>If they want to pay, they don't have mechanisms to pay you online. Umm, this is false. There are lots of ways to pay online. IRCTC does this on a decent scale. All that being said, I agree it can be hard doing business but I don't believe it is any harder than doing it anywhere else. Every market has its set of advantages and disadvantages, but one needs to focus on what can be done instead of obsessing over what cannot be done. I looked at your site and like the idea. I am sure you must have tried this but have you tried making up deals with IT companies where you do the tax filings for all the people in the company for a bulk rate. A lot of companies do this since the guys collect the documents from the office saving the employees time and your pricing is very reasonable. Also, they are the ones who'd be more likely to understand and pay for this. Cheers
- kamaal 15y agocheapass website because they look for the cheapest deal... Why is this wrong. I don't see anything wrong in this. Don't deals work around the world. Haven't you heard of sites like groupon?
- asto 15y agoCheap web-developers do shoddy work. Why are you pulling groupon into this? Businesses offer discounts through groupon. The business itself may be among the worst of its kind or among the best. So the quality of product/service received depends on the business offering discount. If you are hiring the cheapest web-developer in the market however, I can guarantee you that you will end up with somebody incompetent.
- kamaal 15y agoYou are getting into classic Nerd rage. Lets take the example of Flipkart. It might not be the epitome of tech innovation. But Flipkart is sheer awesomeness. Let me tell you why! They might have built their site with php, and they might use MySQL and they might use Java. None of that matters. It doesn't matter that they don't use Python, or NoSQL or Ruby on Rails. It doesn't matter if their webpages load 0.01 ms slower than others. Let me tell you what matters. What matters is, somebody with an email can go on their site and order stuff even without a credit card. And they are trustworthy to deliver the good at your doorstep. And they do this with several thousands of customers everyday. This is what matters! They solved a problem, they do it efficiently and they do that several thousand times a day. Code is not an answer to all solutions. In case of a business many things matters. Business is a proposition of a many things and tech is one of them. Merely writing efficient code is not going to make you successful. Although writing efficient code will help you to be successful.
- pm90 15y agoThis is a very good point. I think the assumption was "cheap" means "works poorly".
- xxcode 15y agoThe article was a bit difficult to follow, perhaps due to liberal use of 'Indian' English and missing prepositions. Sorry, I know this is meta - I would like to hear what you have to say and would likely find it interesting. I would appreciate if you were to revise your writing so that it is more readable. I believe you are capable of it.
- architgupta 15y agoI am the author. Pardon the poor English. Can you give me a couple of example phrases? I'll maybe try to re-write. Another person also complained about the writing, so an opportunity to learn here. :) [Edit: I see feedback below. I'll take another pass soon.]
- random_ind_dude 15y agoThough I understood the points you are trying to convey, I had to go back and forth a couple of times over the article to make sense of it. You haven't organized your thoughts well. This, coupled with the use of incomplete sentences and incorrect grammar made it harder for me to understand the article. As an example consider this paragraph: > But now I am of the opinion. Figure out an unnatural advantage. Take it. Otherwise raise VC from day-one for Indian startups. Don't bootstrap because longer runways are needed. It has sentence fragments like "But now I am of the opinion.", sentences that don't make sense at first reading like "Don't bootstrap because longer runways are needed." and grammatical errors. Sorry for the harsh response, but I feel that rewriting the article will make it easier for the readers to see your points better. I'm aware that Skitt's law probably applies to my post. :)
- gizzlon 15y agoI'm not GP, but I found it difficult to follow as well and stopped after 2-3 paragraphs. "So here goes the question: [..]" What is the question? It was kind of difficult to get what your point was and what you where arguing. Please, just keep it simple.
- plinkplonk 15y ago"Also when that start-up outlier comes, Indian entrepreneurs will then do 100 such outliers immediately after that. But we have seen businesses built off the backs of decade long rounds of investment, value creation and persistence. (Shaadi, Naukri, MMT)Immediately after fast-followers followed at maturity to squeeze the juice (BharatMatrimony, ClearTrip, Yatra). Unless strong network-effects (Two-sided marketplace kind of plays), that would mean consumer plays are best approached from a brand building perspective?" I am Indian and I couldn't make head or tail of what exactly is being said here. I suspect it isn't so much "Indian English" as unclear writing. I think you are trying to say something like (I had to pause reading and think for a while) "After a market was created and validated by companies with long gestation periods, others set up very similar companies quickly to exploit it. Given this, if the business model is not dependent on network effects, it might be better to just focus on brand building" At least that is what I think you were trying to say. Coupled with somewhat odd sentence structure (But now I am of the opinion. Figure out...) , and random capitalization choices (why is the word "Restaurants" capitalized for example?) the article is a very difficult read, with very choppy idea arrangement. A rewrite might really help. (my 2 cents. posted this only because you asked for feedback)
- wiradikusuma 15y ago/s/Indian/Indonesian and I just written an article about Indonesia.
- kamaal 15y agoThis is going to be a rant... I am an Indian! Currently staying in Bangalore. Indians don't buy Technology? This is BS, right? Indians pay for technology all the time. From the poorest to richest. Just because they don't click on paypal and the money doesn't land in your start up's account it doesn't mean Indians don't pay up. The average levels of Piracy in India will more or less be the same as they are around the world. Indians pay for things that bring them value. Not just because you built something. And it is you who built it.So first understand what value you bring common Indian masses. I know of Auto drivers and cab drivers who get costly metering and taxi dispatch systems fitted to their vehicles. And they are really poor people. They are paying for technology, because it brings value to them. Do you know how many people use mobiles phones in India? Even the poorest people might be earning less than $1 a day(I know many beggars who carry mobile phones) use mobile phones in India, and they pay their bills. I know Temples, Churches, Mosques use scrolling displays outside their compounds for various announcements. The displays survive in tough weather. And they sell. They bought it because it adds value to them. I know ordinary middle class people, buy handy glucometers( for diabetes/blood sugar level testing) and Nebulizers and Sphygmomanometers(To check their blood pressure levels), Glucometers made by Accecheck. Why do they buy this technology? Because it brings value to them. Millions of middle class Indians use solar technology and rain water harvesting systems. And they pay for it, you know why? Because it brings value to them. I can go on and on... Citing examples. India is like every other country and Indians are like people from any other nation. People pay up when they see some value in the product. So any time you accuse Indians of not paying up. Ask your self a simple question. What value does my service/product bring to the people If you can't come up with a good answer to this question. Really the problem is with your product strategy. Not Indians. Or India as a whole. PS: In this case 'Tax filing' software/means is worth dime for a dozen in this country. EDIT : To all people who are downvoting this, Truth is bitter. An MVC site which has a thousand clones or which doesn't bring any value is not bound to succeed. Seriously ask your self what value you bring to the world or why should people buy from you.
- free 15y agoCompletely agree. I am supremely confident that given the size of the market and the pace at which it is changing it is a great place to start a company. Also somewhat curious as to why lot of people are being so skeptical about it.
- sayeed 15y agoAs already mentioned, the writing style makes it hard to get to the heart of the matter. For me, it reads like a cathartic post from a stressed out entrepreneur. Needs to be 'understood' rather than being taken literally. The gist of the post can be summarized so: Is it a good idea to start a software products company in India? No, it isn't, because VCs will never fund it and you will never make it by bootstrapping. Even if you do, "fast-followers" will clone your business and get the benefit. Heads you loose, tails they win. Then we have all the obstacles one has to grapple with. Not least are the unreasonable, uncouth, undiscerning customers who want to free-ride as much as possible. The future will be better but now it's so bleak... :( ---- Being a Bangalore based entrepreneur focused on Indian enterprises and small businesses (co-founder, Greytip), I can relate to the frustrations but also strongly disagree on many counts. Yes, there may not be a market for Online Tax Filing due to all the factors Archit lists out, but, it could also be because there are already many players in the domain. Moreover, it is a once a year business opportunity so it's a tougher nut to crack. As for customers willingness to pay for software, it is all about value for money. A $5 per user pricing, although reasonable in the developed world, will not cut ice in India. A 50 cents per user pricing may yet work. Which brings us to the key challenges to doing business in India: how do you keep costs low and still make profits, break-even before you break out of runway, and not compromise on quality and service. Some days you put your head down and get going, some days you silently scream in the dark, and on some days you just rant... ;)
- kamaal 15y agoI would also say it depends on what your want to do. If your intention is hit and run success through easiest means. And then complaining that it isn't happening won't help. Good things and 'value for money' is not easy to build. Something like Flipkart is not easy to build(The whole thing with their supply chain, not just the site) and not easy to copy. And for genuine stuff its not going to be as easy as heads you loose, tails they win. A more important question to ask Is your success that easy to replicate? And if it is, what is so great about your work?
- architgupta 15y agoGood one Sayeed. :-) It was a rant. $5 pricing once a year. If that's outside of the affordability range, my business will be in trouble. Most people pay though, so I am not too worried. VC funded business is fine IMO, just be prepared if you create a market, fast followers are coming. True for most companies across the world I suppose(Expedia, Kayak, Orbitz). Hence, I wrote about brand building, while you create value. I think the takeaway is: "the key challenges to doing business in India: how do you keep costs low and still make profits, break-even before you break out of runway, and not compromise on quality and service." I think this is true for across the world. I mean everyone loves a deal! So maybe create a business for the richer part of the world. Mostly food for thought. I like what GreyTip is doing.