7 ms·

Grindr loses nearly half its staff to strict return-to-work rule

44 points by donutshop 3y ago

diogenes4 3y ago
I'm surprised they managed to keep half their staff.
- Melting_Harps 3y ago
  > I'm surprised they managed to keep half their staff. Me too, but the default response was that those that stayed are already sending out feelers rather than shipping code; I think dating apps are an odd thing of my generation that, like social media, I never 'got' but the fact remains there are enough people using them to have market product fit and have had a modest but apparently useful work-force. They just cut your work force in half with some short term gain(s) in the process, but to seriously think that others who didn't leave won't jump ship when they have the chance is absurd: the 'WFH = fired' mantra echoed by Amazon and Elon recently with X (see how well that's gone as he has driven that company into the ground entirely by himself) and Tesla etc... then this may be how these things lose market share. I'm indifferent to the app's existance but I'm glad that worker solidarity made one half quit rather than be forced into an archaic modality that tech doesn't need to be in; but maybe these people go work on something other than a hook-up app and people go back to meeting in clubs/bars/library/park/party and these workers actually apply there skills to something of actual use. It's a win-win in my book.
  - redhale 3y ago
    > apply [their] skills to something of actual use What a bizarre thing to say in 2023. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone under 40 who doesn't know at least one couple who met online. These people lost their jobs. No need to ignorantly denigrate their work as well.
    - FFP999 3y ago
      Literally 100% of my immediate family married someone they met online. 75% of us, including myself, are still married to said online date.
    - Melting_Harps 3y ago
      > I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone under 40 who doesn't know at least one couple who met online. What an off-the-mark conclusion, I like many other tech working millennials grew up on the internet and came of age when it became (reluctantly) what it is now; of course I know people who met online, I have spent way too much of my Life online so I personally refused to use them and don't see their allure; I still rely on social interactions to meet partners. I'm way too analog in that respect despite a majority of my life being spent online. > These people lost their jobs. No need to ignorantly denigrate their work as well. They didn't lose their jobs, so much as showed that RTO is so absurd that its not worth returning even if it meant being terminated to satisfy the managerial class, and that is what conviction looks like; and I'm not denigrating their work, so much as underscoring worker resentment will make them move on to something more worthy of their time. Ultimately, I'm praising them as they have my full solidarity and exposing Grindr to be just as myopic as Amazon/X/Tesla run by imbeciles who are forcing them back to the office despite many studies showing that the metrics and performance are not decreasing and have offered people actual work life balance and have made many (but not all) more satisfied and productive. This mentality is wide spread in Corporate America, and apparently Grindr is complicit and willing to risk it's workforce to do it to, despite all it's branding of inclusiveness it clearly doesn't include respecting their workers preferences: ironic huh? Almost like this narrative only holds water when its profitable and suits them.
  - Cpoll 3y ago
    > people go back to meeting in clubs/bars/library/park/party Yeah, I hear those are safe, inclusive and readily available all over the world for people that use Grindr. Incidentally, isn't HN not of actual use on the same token? Shouldn't you be telling someone in a bar about this instead?
    - Melting_Harps 3y ago
      > Yeah, I hear those are safe, inclusive and readily available all over the world for people that use Grindr. I admit I didn't know it was an app exclusively for gay people, and while you are right that many are vilified in certain countries that doesn't really stop people from meeting, and I'd argue if the systemic prosecution of people based on their sexual orientation is going on they likely have bigger issues than their developers deciding to draw a line in terms of worker rights. Israel comes to mind. > Incidentally, isn't HN not of actual use on the same token? Shouldn't you be telling someone in a bar about this instead? It is not my primary form of interacting with people, let alone where I look for potential partners: incidentally I had just come from wishing my friends (incidentally a lesbian couple) well wishes on their trip to Cabo this weekend at a Korean BBQ spot when I wrote that so... you draw your own conclusions.
djur 3y ago
The headline seems incorrect: it's a return-to-office rule, not a return-to-work rule. The employees were already working.
- pipeline_peak 3y ago
  > return-to-work rule I couldn’t imagine some interpreting it that literally. A quick google search between the two, they’re virtually synonymous.
  - doktorhladnjak 3y ago
    It seems pretty revealing to how some people view work from home not being actual work
    - newshackr 3y ago
      Work is a pretty common term for the office. For instance, Google maps lets you set your "work" location.
      - mlyle 3y ago
        Sure. But whether you spin it as "return to work" [as if you weren't doing something/somewhere that could be considered "work" before] or "return to office" is likely to be revealing as to your mindset about the whole thing. Language has connotations that influence how we interpret others' arguments.
      - ozim 3y ago
        If you would be visiting customer site where you were also working, would you tell customer "Hey nice meeting with you I am going back to work"?
        bdangubic 3y ago
        Yes, absolutely. I don’t think I have once in my life said “I am going back to the office”
chrisbolt 3y ago
Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434293
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
dimitar 3y ago
Two things that stand out for me: * the CEO finds silver margins in reduced costs * paying salaries is second to paying rent to platforms
aliasxneo 3y ago
"So that’ll obviously impact margin in a positive way in the near term" At least they were transparent?
rekabis 3y ago
People will vote with their feet. These aren’t wage slaves on poverty wages, these are tech professionals that can - if they are good - get another job within a few short months if not weeks. Grindr is hollowing itself out in terms of talent and it’s best employees, leaving only the sub-par and desperate.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  People remain in bad situations for many reasons that have nothing to do with their skills, performance, or quality of work. Maybe they have a medical condition and cannot risk disrupting their healthcare even for a short time, maybe their housing is at risk, maybe their partner was just laid off, etc. Please do not insult those with fewer options.
  - rekabis 3y ago
    What you used as an example is fully encapsulated by my use of the term “desperate”. Those chained to their job via the medical insurance it provides, or housing disruption, or family income stream, are indeed desperate for said insurance or housing stability or income stream. This is not insulting in the least, merely factual. And when those who are talented enough with the ability to easily jump ship actually do so in droves, the company is indeed being “ hollowed out” of talent regardless of the talent remaining. When you remove 9 of your top 10 people, the company is still being “hollowed out” even if that 10th person is head and shoulders above the other 9. One person cannot shoulder the work of another 9 who have left, that is impossible. The company will decline regardless of how much of a superstar programmer that one remaining person is.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >This is not insulting in the least, merely factual. it's certainly tonedeaf when you consider properly funding your kids as "desperate", yes. I don't know if this is a cultural divide or if English isn't your native language, but "desperate" carries a connotation of being shackled to an unusually low point. Not something that 90+% of the country relies on because the US lacks universal healthcare. >the company is indeed being “ hollowed out” of talent regardless of the talent remaining. that wasn't your original argument. I wish we could simply respect the choices of an individual and not assume their aptitude because of their views on work from home.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe]
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago
  More discussion over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241
Obscurity4340 3y ago
How do news outlets actually find out when things like this happen? Are they tipped off by an disgruntled (ex) employee?
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Any news worth its salt will have a source in the article vouching to the story: >The CWA filed a new labor complaint against the company on Wednesday, the second such complaint in about a month. >“These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users,” Erick Cortez, a member of the organizing group, said in the statement. “It is clear Grindr wants workers to be silenced and deterred from exercising our right to organize, regardless of the expense.” In this case, the forming union group reported it, likely after getting info from some manager who talked about it. Or perhaps estimating based on some internal metrics.
redhale 3y ago
> 2 days a week If you would be forced to relocate to meet this mandate, I completely understand resigning, and I would likely do the same. But I feel a bit out of place among my peers because assuming I lived within reasonable commuting distance from the office ... I personally wouldn't mind this. Not the commuting/scheduling inconvenience it would mean for me or others, but working in person a couple days a week, for me, makes my personal experience of work more enjoyable overall. I prefer that it be voluntary/opt-in though, obviously. Hopefully the equilibrium we'll eventually reach is some set of companies for those that prefer full remote, and another set for those that prefer hybrid. The real pain is caused by companies switching modalities with mandates.
- Roark66 3y ago
  >But I feel a bit out of place among my peers because assuming I lived within reasonable commuting distance from the office. But what is a reasonable commuting distance? Is it half an hour by car in medium traffic that turns to one hour one way in heavy traffic? Is it 15min combined walking and riding a train? There is a huge span of possibilities here. When I used to live in a city I had a combined 15 min walking/riding a train/underground commute. I actually enjoyed it and my work. I enjoyed that I could get good coffee or eat breakfast in a cafe on my way to work. I didn't mind the 10min on public transport. But I also knew I could never afford to buy a nice property without a huge mortgage. I couldn't move out to the country if I wanted or I'd waste my life commuting at least 2h every day. When comparing wfh with the office people often focus on all the time they get back in their life not having to commute. For me being able to live where I want is a much bigger deal. Also the fact what matters are actual results of my work not how busy and hardworking I can myself look like in the office. I'm definitely not a fan of all the video/voice meetings that happen. It's such a collosal waste of time 90% of the time, but I'll take virtual meetings any day over actual in person meetings. Anyone who came up with an idea of a daily "stand up" as a way to "update what we're working on" as opposed to just sharing blockers must have been an evil genius.
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  what two days a week? without planning and coordination, you are likely to sit alone in an office on a zoom call, because you came to the office on a day that no one you are interacting with came to the office. unless it is about the office, but, wework didn’t go so hot.

44 points by donutshop 3y ago

diogenes4 3y ago

I'm surprised they managed to keep half their staff.

Melting_Harps 3y ago
> I'm surprised they managed to keep half their staff. Me too, but the default response was that those that stayed are already sending out feelers rather than shipping code; I think dating apps are an odd thing of my generation that, like social media, I never 'got' but the fact remains there are enough people using them to have market product fit and have had a modest but apparently useful work-force. They just cut your work force in half with some short term gain(s) in the process, but to seriously think that others who didn't leave won't jump ship when they have the chance is absurd: the 'WFH = fired' mantra echoed by Amazon and Elon recently with X (see how well that's gone as he has driven that company into the ground entirely by himself) and Tesla etc... then this may be how these things lose market share. I'm indifferent to the app's existance but I'm glad that worker solidarity made one half quit rather than be forced into an archaic modality that tech doesn't need to be in; but maybe these people go work on something other than a hook-up app and people go back to meeting in clubs/bars/library/park/party and these workers actually apply there skills to something of actual use. It's a win-win in my book.
- redhale 3y ago
  > apply [their] skills to something of actual use What a bizarre thing to say in 2023. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone under 40 who doesn't know at least one couple who met online. These people lost their jobs. No need to ignorantly denigrate their work as well.
  - FFP999 3y ago
    Literally 100% of my immediate family married someone they met online. 75% of us, including myself, are still married to said online date.
  - Melting_Harps 3y ago
    > I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone under 40 who doesn't know at least one couple who met online. What an off-the-mark conclusion, I like many other tech working millennials grew up on the internet and came of age when it became (reluctantly) what it is now; of course I know people who met online, I have spent way too much of my Life online so I personally refused to use them and don't see their allure; I still rely on social interactions to meet partners. I'm way too analog in that respect despite a majority of my life being spent online. > These people lost their jobs. No need to ignorantly denigrate their work as well. They didn't lose their jobs, so much as showed that RTO is so absurd that its not worth returning even if it meant being terminated to satisfy the managerial class, and that is what conviction looks like; and I'm not denigrating their work, so much as underscoring worker resentment will make them move on to something more worthy of their time. Ultimately, I'm praising them as they have my full solidarity and exposing Grindr to be just as myopic as Amazon/X/Tesla run by imbeciles who are forcing them back to the office despite many studies showing that the metrics and performance are not decreasing and have offered people actual work life balance and have made many (but not all) more satisfied and productive. This mentality is wide spread in Corporate America, and apparently Grindr is complicit and willing to risk it's workforce to do it to, despite all it's branding of inclusiveness it clearly doesn't include respecting their workers preferences: ironic huh? Almost like this narrative only holds water when its profitable and suits them.
- Cpoll 3y ago
  > people go back to meeting in clubs/bars/library/park/party Yeah, I hear those are safe, inclusive and readily available all over the world for people that use Grindr. Incidentally, isn't HN not of actual use on the same token? Shouldn't you be telling someone in a bar about this instead?
  - Melting_Harps 3y ago
    > Yeah, I hear those are safe, inclusive and readily available all over the world for people that use Grindr. I admit I didn't know it was an app exclusively for gay people, and while you are right that many are vilified in certain countries that doesn't really stop people from meeting, and I'd argue if the systemic prosecution of people based on their sexual orientation is going on they likely have bigger issues than their developers deciding to draw a line in terms of worker rights. Israel comes to mind. > Incidentally, isn't HN not of actual use on the same token? Shouldn't you be telling someone in a bar about this instead? It is not my primary form of interacting with people, let alone where I look for potential partners: incidentally I had just come from wishing my friends (incidentally a lesbian couple) well wishes on their trip to Cabo this weekend at a Korean BBQ spot when I wrote that so... you draw your own conclusions.

djur 3y ago

The headline seems incorrect: it's a return-to-office rule, not a return-to-work rule. The employees were already working.

pipeline_peak 3y ago
> return-to-work rule I couldn’t imagine some interpreting it that literally. A quick google search between the two, they’re virtually synonymous.
- doktorhladnjak 3y ago
  It seems pretty revealing to how some people view work from home not being actual work
  - newshackr 3y ago
    Work is a pretty common term for the office. For instance, Google maps lets you set your "work" location.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      Sure. But whether you spin it as "return to work" [as if you weren't doing something/somewhere that could be considered "work" before] or "return to office" is likely to be revealing as to your mindset about the whole thing. Language has connotations that influence how we interpret others' arguments.
    - ozim 3y ago
      If you would be visiting customer site where you were also working, would you tell customer "Hey nice meeting with you I am going back to work"?
      - bdangubic 3y ago
        Yes, absolutely. I don’t think I have once in my life said “I am going back to the office”

chrisbolt 3y ago

Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37434293

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

dimitar 3y ago

Two things that stand out for me: * the CEO finds silver margins in reduced costs * paying salaries is second to paying rent to platforms

aliasxneo 3y ago

"So that’ll obviously impact margin in a positive way in the near term" At least they were transparent?

rekabis 3y ago

People will vote with their feet. These aren’t wage slaves on poverty wages, these are tech professionals that can - if they are good - get another job within a few short months if not weeks. Grindr is hollowing itself out in terms of talent and it’s best employees, leaving only the sub-par and desperate.

CapstanRoller 3y ago
People remain in bad situations for many reasons that have nothing to do with their skills, performance, or quality of work. Maybe they have a medical condition and cannot risk disrupting their healthcare even for a short time, maybe their housing is at risk, maybe their partner was just laid off, etc. Please do not insult those with fewer options.
- rekabis 3y ago
  What you used as an example is fully encapsulated by my use of the term “desperate”. Those chained to their job via the medical insurance it provides, or housing disruption, or family income stream, are indeed desperate for said insurance or housing stability or income stream. This is not insulting in the least, merely factual. And when those who are talented enough with the ability to easily jump ship actually do so in droves, the company is indeed being “ hollowed out” of talent regardless of the talent remaining. When you remove 9 of your top 10 people, the company is still being “hollowed out” even if that 10th person is head and shoulders above the other 9. One person cannot shoulder the work of another 9 who have left, that is impossible. The company will decline regardless of how much of a superstar programmer that one remaining person is.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >This is not insulting in the least, merely factual. it's certainly tonedeaf when you consider properly funding your kids as "desperate", yes. I don't know if this is a cultural divide or if English isn't your native language, but "desperate" carries a connotation of being shackled to an unusually low point. Not something that 90+% of the country relies on because the US lacks universal healthcare. >the company is indeed being “ hollowed out” of talent regardless of the talent remaining. that wasn't your original argument. I wish we could simply respect the choices of an individual and not assume their aptitude because of their views on work from home.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe]

ChrisArchitect 3y ago
More discussion over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37421241

Obscurity4340 3y ago

How do news outlets actually find out when things like this happen? Are they tipped off by an disgruntled (ex) employee?

johnnyanmac 3y ago
Any news worth its salt will have a source in the article vouching to the story: >The CWA filed a new labor complaint against the company on Wednesday, the second such complaint in about a month. >“These decisions have left Grindr dangerously understaffed and raises questions about the safety, security and stability of the app for users,” Erick Cortez, a member of the organizing group, said in the statement. “It is clear Grindr wants workers to be silenced and deterred from exercising our right to organize, regardless of the expense.” In this case, the forming union group reported it, likely after getting info from some manager who talked about it. Or perhaps estimating based on some internal metrics.

redhale 3y ago

> 2 days a week If you would be forced to relocate to meet this mandate, I completely understand resigning, and I would likely do the same. But I feel a bit out of place among my peers because assuming I lived within reasonable commuting distance from the office ... I personally wouldn't mind this. Not the commuting/scheduling inconvenience it would mean for me or others, but working in person a couple days a week, for me, makes my personal experience of work more enjoyable overall. I prefer that it be voluntary/opt-in though, obviously. Hopefully the equilibrium we'll eventually reach is some set of companies for those that prefer full remote, and another set for those that prefer hybrid. The real pain is caused by companies switching modalities with mandates.

Roark66 3y ago
>But I feel a bit out of place among my peers because assuming I lived within reasonable commuting distance from the office. But what is a reasonable commuting distance? Is it half an hour by car in medium traffic that turns to one hour one way in heavy traffic? Is it 15min combined walking and riding a train? There is a huge span of possibilities here. When I used to live in a city I had a combined 15 min walking/riding a train/underground commute. I actually enjoyed it and my work. I enjoyed that I could get good coffee or eat breakfast in a cafe on my way to work. I didn't mind the 10min on public transport. But I also knew I could never afford to buy a nice property without a huge mortgage. I couldn't move out to the country if I wanted or I'd waste my life commuting at least 2h every day. When comparing wfh with the office people often focus on all the time they get back in their life not having to commute. For me being able to live where I want is a much bigger deal. Also the fact what matters are actual results of my work not how busy and hardworking I can myself look like in the office. I'm definitely not a fan of all the video/voice meetings that happen. It's such a collosal waste of time 90% of the time, but I'll take virtual meetings any day over actual in person meetings. Anyone who came up with an idea of a daily "stand up" as a way to "update what we're working on" as opposed to just sharing blockers must have been an evil genius.
catchnear4321 3y ago
what two days a week? without planning and coordination, you are likely to sit alone in an office on a zoom call, because you came to the office on a day that no one you are interacting with came to the office. unless it is about the office, but, wework didn’t go so hot.