7 ms·

The pet peeves (https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-worst-passengers-rude-no-tip-stop-drive-thru-2023-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-wo

The pet peeves (https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-worst-passengers-rude-no-tip-stop-drive-thru-2023-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-worst-passenger...) bug me: 1) Tipping shouldn't happen. There should be a fair salary. Tipping was introduced in 2017, and Uber is trying to make it more common. If drivers should be paid more, it should raise fares and incomes. 2) Arriving late should be okay. Passengers should be charged for it at a rate fair to the driver. Especially arriving at an airport after a 16+ hour flight, I'm glad to pay a driver to wait. A lot of this feels like misaligned incentives.

22c 3y ago
I disagree with tipping culture in general (ie. always expected to tip because they're not paid enough) but for an exceptional driver I'm happy to throw a tip their way. Some drivers are really knowledgable and will happily give tips on where to go for dinner, what to do and see around, places to avoid etc. and I think a bit of monetary recognition (if you can afford it) is a good thing.
- etchalon 3y ago
  You can't "disagree" with tipping culture where it exists. It exists. The driver's compensation is based on the assumption people will tip.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Sure you can, opting out of tipping changes the equilibrium. Tipping restaurants seems deeply ingrained in American culture, but chipping at the edges is how you get real change. Tipping isn’t a neutral activity, it actively supports exploitive work environments. I actively boycott such businesses, but even just scaling down tips is a positive change.
    - etchalon 3y ago
      Opting out of tipping doesn't change anything but people's opinion of you.
      - katbyte 3y ago
        You can opt out of going to places where a top is expected.
        etchalon 3y ago
        By all means, boycott businesses that you don't believe pay their workers fairly. That's not "opting out of tipping" and isn't the behavior the OP described.
        Retric 3y ago
        You obviously failed to read what I said. “I actively boycott such businesses” I boycott and recommend others tip less if they feel the need to go to such places.
        rendall 3y ago
        You wrote that you boycott "exploitive work environments" which is not stating clearly that you never, ever, without exception go to any establishment where staff expects a tip. Waiters or bartenders at some popular restaurants can earn an annual income in the 6 figures. So, these places, not exploitative but highly desirable, are fair game for you to visit and then not tip or scale down tipping.
        Retric 3y ago
        All businesses where tipping makes up a significant portion of someone’s wages are exploitive including bartenders making 6 figures. Many businesses such as exterminators haven’t crossed that threshold, but still add a tipping line to bills because it’s got no downside to them.
    - rendall 3y ago
      You are not a warrior for change against tipping culture by not tipping. Purchasing services and then not tipping or "scaling down tipping" just makes you an entitled jerk. There's no sacrifice for you. Your "activism" is conveniently cheaper for you and puts pressure on precisely the wrong person. If you want to change tipping culture, actively apply pressure by never purchasing services if it requires tipping, and following through by writing a letter to the company explaining your decision. Get other people to do it. Or lead by example! Open a restaurant (or delivery service, or hotel, spa, whatever) and pay the staff a living wage and instruct staff to refuse tips. Encourage fellow establishment owners to do the same. When you do purchase services that conventionally expect tips then tip and tip generously.
      - Retric 3y ago
        I boycott and recommended others not tip or at minimum tip less. Tipping actively subsidies non tippers the thief’s you’re so concerned with. Boycott if you have conviction, tip less if you have the willpower, just don’t perpetuate this terrible system.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        > There's no sacrifice for you. This is one of the best ways to get something to change. Convince people to do something that benefits them selfishly which at scale causes the evil to become unsustainable. The ideal case is for everyone to adopt this practice as quickly as possible so the evil is eradicated quickly. The harmful thing is to advocate against it so it spreads less quickly and causes the transition period when some people tip and some people don't to last longer before the system is rightfully destroyed.
        rendall 3y ago
        No it's one of the best ways to wrap dubious, self-serving moral bankruptcy and lack of empathy in a shroud of self-righteousness. It's nonsense. I outlined above the only ways to change tipping culture. You really care about the poor, exploited worker? Ask them and listen to what they think you should do to help them. Purchasing services when tipping is the convention and then not tipping ain't it, chief.
    - spondylosaurus 3y ago
      Restaurants don't care if you tip; they'll happily keep paying people crappy wages, same as ever. Your "protest" goes unnoticed by the forces you're trying to sway.
      - Retric 3y ago
        Restraints directly care when people stop going to them, they also care when employees quit because they have better alternatives.
      - thehappypm 3y ago
        What is a “restaurant” in this case? Its owners? The owners absolutely care that tipping is happening
        spondylosaurus 3y ago
        Why? Unless tips go to the owners, which to my understanding is generally not the case.
        Retric 3y ago
        Because employees quit if they don’t get enough tips.
        ForestCritter 3y ago
        no they just hire someone else to work in their place. Restaurant owners I've worked for don't care if customers tip, that's the servers problem. And cooks don't care either if they are the reason the server doesn't get a tip. They get full wages regardless.
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        The employer can't pay employees less than they can get somewhere else or no one will take the job.
    - 22c 3y ago
      Well when I said I disagree with tipping culture, I didn't mean to imply that I don't tip where tips are expected. What I meant is that I'm happy to tip even where it's not expected if the service was exceptional.
gumballindie 3y ago
Uber taking 25% commissions on each trip is insane. The drivers are not paid fairly because of that. Besides the commission they need to pay tax and car maintenance. If you over charge the passengers then they’ll use other services.
- akira2501 3y ago
  These are year 2000 numbers, but driving a taxi, I paid a $50 lease to the cab company. That got me the car for an 8 hour shift. The expectation was that I would return it clean and with the same amount of fuel I took it out with, ideally, full. The full amount of the fare went in my pocket. On bad weekdays, I could usually hustle at least $100 in fare, less fuel and expenses, it put around $20 to $30 in my pocket. On good weekends, I could sometimes get over $300, less fuel and expenses, it put $150 to $200 in my pocket. Drunks often tip well, but they also sometimes vomit. I wonder if that's not a sustainable driver business model. The trade is, you really do need drivers to show up and hold shifts for coverage. Even driving a taxi we got a bunch of call ins and more lucrative "time orders" where people would schedule rides for a specific time well in advance. Sometimes the same people you would get good tips from on the weekends. Anyways.. there's a lot of variability and you could argue that Uber's cut is to afford drivers the flexibility they otherwise wouldn't get in a "lease" style model.
jonfromsf 3y ago
I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds.
- ForestCritter 3y ago
  minimum wage for industry with tips is 2.13 an hour and the IRS estimates how much tip you make and taxes you that amount. Not tipping simply robs the worker.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    The parent was quoting from 'Reservoir Dogs', a Quentin Tarantino film from the early 1990s.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    > and the IRS estimates how much tip you make and taxes you that amount I have plenty of problems with tipping culture, but this one is entirely of the server's making, and is a common trope. If you can demonstrate/document less tips than the IRS estimate, that's exactly what you will be taxed. Nobody is forcing you to be taxed on unearned income... ... but most servers don't do that because the vast majority of them make entirely more than the IRS tipping estimates.
    - ForestCritter 3y ago
      There is no such thing as documenting cash tips. I wouldn't have any problems with no tipping if servers got paid on the same scale as everybody else.
      - FireBeyond 3y ago
        That's not accurate: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe... Fill this out every month: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf
crazygringo 3y ago
> Tipping was introduced in 2017, and Uber is trying to make it more common Uber was anti-tipping, and it seems like the media backlash forced their hand, to not look like scrooges, together with driver demand for it. I don't see how Uber is trying to make it more common? > Especially arriving at an airport after a 16+ hour flight, I'm glad to pay a driver to wait. That might work anywhere but the airport. There isn't enough space in front of arrivals to handle everybody who wants to do this, in a way that doesn't block traffic. Uber already has special-case systems for airport pickups to reduce congestion (that riders don't see).
- technofiend 3y ago
  >Uber already has special-case systems for airport pickups to reduce congestion (that riders don't see). Those special case systems (IMHO) are solving the wrong problem. Uber airport queues should be exactly like taxi queues: the passenger at the front of the queue takes the taxi at the front of the queue and you're done. No more which car is yours, let me find a spot, block other cars while we load, etc, etc. At Newark, for instance, Uber drivers regularly take 10-30 minutes to show up after accepting your ride, and even then, they'll often call you and ask you meet on a different floor, one specifically meant for private cars, not car hire services, because the traffic on the floor they're supposed to pick you up on is so very busy. It's far better to just do front of queue matching and let the passengers scan a QR code that establishes that driver as their driver for the trip. No more brinksmanship of ordering an Uber when you deplane and hoping you are ready with your luggage around the time your driver arrives.
  - thebears5454 3y ago
    Yes, just give them a ride or a code and I have the driver entry then you know who is going where. it's a very simple problem to solve
  - yathaid 3y ago
    This is how Uber works in airports in India. You don't get assigned a driver, you are given a six digit code. You give it to the next driver up when you reach the front of the queue and then your ride starts as normal.

22c 3y ago

I disagree with tipping culture in general (ie. always expected to tip because they're not paid enough) but for an exceptional driver I'm happy to throw a tip their way. Some drivers are really knowledgable and will happily give tips on where to go for dinner, what to do and see around, places to avoid etc. and I think a bit of monetary recognition (if you can afford it) is a good thing.

etchalon 3y ago
You can't "disagree" with tipping culture where it exists. It exists. The driver's compensation is based on the assumption people will tip.
- Retric 3y ago
  Sure you can, opting out of tipping changes the equilibrium. Tipping restaurants seems deeply ingrained in American culture, but chipping at the edges is how you get real change. Tipping isn’t a neutral activity, it actively supports exploitive work environments. I actively boycott such businesses, but even just scaling down tips is a positive change.
  - etchalon 3y ago
    Opting out of tipping doesn't change anything but people's opinion of you.
    - katbyte 3y ago
      You can opt out of going to places where a top is expected.
      - etchalon 3y ago
        By all means, boycott businesses that you don't believe pay their workers fairly. That's not "opting out of tipping" and isn't the behavior the OP described.
        Retric 3y ago
        You obviously failed to read what I said. “I actively boycott such businesses” I boycott and recommend others tip less if they feel the need to go to such places.
        rendall 3y ago
        You wrote that you boycott "exploitive work environments" which is not stating clearly that you never, ever, without exception go to any establishment where staff expects a tip. Waiters or bartenders at some popular restaurants can earn an annual income in the 6 figures. So, these places, not exploitative but highly desirable, are fair game for you to visit and then not tip or scale down tipping.
        Retric 3y ago
        All businesses where tipping makes up a significant portion of someone’s wages are exploitive including bartenders making 6 figures. Many businesses such as exterminators haven’t crossed that threshold, but still add a tipping line to bills because it’s got no downside to them.
  - rendall 3y ago
    You are not a warrior for change against tipping culture by not tipping. Purchasing services and then not tipping or "scaling down tipping" just makes you an entitled jerk. There's no sacrifice for you. Your "activism" is conveniently cheaper for you and puts pressure on precisely the wrong person. If you want to change tipping culture, actively apply pressure by never purchasing services if it requires tipping, and following through by writing a letter to the company explaining your decision. Get other people to do it. Or lead by example! Open a restaurant (or delivery service, or hotel, spa, whatever) and pay the staff a living wage and instruct staff to refuse tips. Encourage fellow establishment owners to do the same. When you do purchase services that conventionally expect tips then tip and tip generously.
    - Retric 3y ago
      I boycott and recommended others not tip or at minimum tip less. Tipping actively subsidies non tippers the thief’s you’re so concerned with. Boycott if you have conviction, tip less if you have the willpower, just don’t perpetuate this terrible system.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      > There's no sacrifice for you. This is one of the best ways to get something to change. Convince people to do something that benefits them selfishly which at scale causes the evil to become unsustainable. The ideal case is for everyone to adopt this practice as quickly as possible so the evil is eradicated quickly. The harmful thing is to advocate against it so it spreads less quickly and causes the transition period when some people tip and some people don't to last longer before the system is rightfully destroyed.
      - rendall 3y ago
        No it's one of the best ways to wrap dubious, self-serving moral bankruptcy and lack of empathy in a shroud of self-righteousness. It's nonsense. I outlined above the only ways to change tipping culture. You really care about the poor, exploited worker? Ask them and listen to what they think you should do to help them. Purchasing services when tipping is the convention and then not tipping ain't it, chief.
  - spondylosaurus 3y ago
    Restaurants don't care if you tip; they'll happily keep paying people crappy wages, same as ever. Your "protest" goes unnoticed by the forces you're trying to sway.
    - Retric 3y ago
      Restraints directly care when people stop going to them, they also care when employees quit because they have better alternatives.
    - thehappypm 3y ago
      What is a “restaurant” in this case? Its owners? The owners absolutely care that tipping is happening
      - spondylosaurus 3y ago
        Why? Unless tips go to the owners, which to my understanding is generally not the case.
        Retric 3y ago
        Because employees quit if they don’t get enough tips.
        ForestCritter 3y ago
        no they just hire someone else to work in their place. Restaurant owners I've worked for don't care if customers tip, that's the servers problem. And cooks don't care either if they are the reason the server doesn't get a tip. They get full wages regardless.
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        The employer can't pay employees less than they can get somewhere else or no one will take the job.
  - 22c 3y ago
    Well when I said I disagree with tipping culture, I didn't mean to imply that I don't tip where tips are expected. What I meant is that I'm happy to tip even where it's not expected if the service was exceptional.

gumballindie 3y ago

Uber taking 25% commissions on each trip is insane. The drivers are not paid fairly because of that. Besides the commission they need to pay tax and car maintenance. If you over charge the passengers then they’ll use other services.

akira2501 3y ago
These are year 2000 numbers, but driving a taxi, I paid a $50 lease to the cab company. That got me the car for an 8 hour shift. The expectation was that I would return it clean and with the same amount of fuel I took it out with, ideally, full. The full amount of the fare went in my pocket. On bad weekdays, I could usually hustle at least $100 in fare, less fuel and expenses, it put around $20 to $30 in my pocket. On good weekends, I could sometimes get over $300, less fuel and expenses, it put $150 to $200 in my pocket. Drunks often tip well, but they also sometimes vomit. I wonder if that's not a sustainable driver business model. The trade is, you really do need drivers to show up and hold shifts for coverage. Even driving a taxi we got a bunch of call ins and more lucrative "time orders" where people would schedule rides for a specific time well in advance. Sometimes the same people you would get good tips from on the weekends. Anyways.. there's a lot of variability and you could argue that Uber's cut is to afford drivers the flexibility they otherwise wouldn't get in a "lease" style model.

jonfromsf 3y ago

I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds.

ForestCritter 3y ago
minimum wage for industry with tips is 2.13 an hour and the IRS estimates how much tip you make and taxes you that amount. Not tipping simply robs the worker.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  The parent was quoting from 'Reservoir Dogs', a Quentin Tarantino film from the early 1990s.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > and the IRS estimates how much tip you make and taxes you that amount I have plenty of problems with tipping culture, but this one is entirely of the server's making, and is a common trope. If you can demonstrate/document less tips than the IRS estimate, that's exactly what you will be taxed. Nobody is forcing you to be taxed on unearned income... ... but most servers don't do that because the vast majority of them make entirely more than the IRS tipping estimates.
  - ForestCritter 3y ago
    There is no such thing as documenting cash tips. I wouldn't have any problems with no tipping if servers got paid on the same scale as everybody else.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      That's not accurate: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe... Fill this out every month: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf

crazygringo 3y ago

> Tipping was introduced in 2017, and Uber is trying to make it more common Uber was anti-tipping, and it seems like the media backlash forced their hand, to not look like scrooges, together with driver demand for it. I don't see how Uber is trying to make it more common? > Especially arriving at an airport after a 16+ hour flight, I'm glad to pay a driver to wait. That might work anywhere but the airport. There isn't enough space in front of arrivals to handle everybody who wants to do this, in a way that doesn't block traffic. Uber already has special-case systems for airport pickups to reduce congestion (that riders don't see).

technofiend 3y ago
>Uber already has special-case systems for airport pickups to reduce congestion (that riders don't see). Those special case systems (IMHO) are solving the wrong problem. Uber airport queues should be exactly like taxi queues: the passenger at the front of the queue takes the taxi at the front of the queue and you're done. No more which car is yours, let me find a spot, block other cars while we load, etc, etc. At Newark, for instance, Uber drivers regularly take 10-30 minutes to show up after accepting your ride, and even then, they'll often call you and ask you meet on a different floor, one specifically meant for private cars, not car hire services, because the traffic on the floor they're supposed to pick you up on is so very busy. It's far better to just do front of queue matching and let the passengers scan a QR code that establishes that driver as their driver for the trip. No more brinksmanship of ordering an Uber when you deplane and hoping you are ready with your luggage around the time your driver arrives.
- thebears5454 3y ago
  Yes, just give them a ride or a code and I have the driver entry then you know who is going where. it's a very simple problem to solve
- yathaid 3y ago
  This is how Uber works in airports in India. You don't get assigned a driver, you are given a six digit code. You give it to the next driver up when you reach the front of the queue and then your ride starts as normal.