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> Anita Rajan, general director of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association in the United States, said Japanese automakers were biding their time until th

> Anita Rajan, general director of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association in the United States, said Japanese automakers were biding their time until they could make electric cars that were as reliable and affordable as the gasoline vehicles. > “I don’t know if there’s a benefit in being first to market with these vehicles,” Ms. Rajan said. “I think it’s how you’re entering the market and the thoughtfulness that you show for your customers.” This is probably all much ado about nothing. Toyota's hybrids and PHEVs are selling as fast as they can make them. The only reason their sales numbers aren't higher in the US has been lack of parts! Cannibalizing the rare materials they could use to make their very successful hybrid lineup in order to make fewer/less profitable/less impactful cars seems pretty foolhardy. Toyota's entire MO is to take old, trusted technologies that they can refine through manufacturing. Even as innovative as the Prius was, it was not a slapped together car to meet market demand. So I find this entire framing fraught. I think the only warranted criticism of their current strategy is that they have not been aggressive enough about locking in battery suppliers. If Toyota wants to proceed down their current path of making every car in their lineup an ultra-durable 300k-achieving hybrid, they need to make sure they don't get bottlenecked. Every other manufacturer is locking in exclusivity deals with battery manufacturers, and Toyota still has a lot of scaling up to do.

kalupa 3y ago
they're probably trying to bank on the hydrogen tech they appear to be heavily invested in. I see H-powered Toyotas in town, Vancouver,BC, regularly and it's the only car brand I know that even sells one at all
- rwmj 3y ago
  How do they fill them up? Is there infrastructure for hydrogen refueling??
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  I think they’re also trying to keep jobs going, this is Japan after all. That’s why they love hybrids. All the existing plants can keep operating. It seems an electric vehicle would require less parts and therefore less people are involved in manufacturing. Imo this is why they like Hydrogen too, more complex to manufacture. Keeps the whole show going.
- legitster 3y ago
  They are also heavily invested in Solid state battery technology, but nothing has panned out from that yet either.
mikestew 3y ago
Nissan shipped the Leaf to the U. S. market in 2011 (after being delayed by an earthquake and tsunami). Tesla was spitting out S's, what, eleven years ago? There's "not being first to market", and then there's being caught with your pants down. Excuses can be made, but it appears to me that a long-term strategy of hydrogen was a poor bet, and now in 2023 they just now release a lack-luster SUV that I don't think is going to sell well. I say this as someone with an almost twenty year old Toyota/Scion in the drive. We got rid of the Leaf, wanted another Toyota, but since Toyota didn't sell EVs, they lost a sale to Hyundai. Either Toyota can "cannibalize" their hybrids, or someone else will be happy to do it for them.
- housemusicfan 3y ago
  The Leaf is a glorified golf cart, it is not comparable to a Toyota family car.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    The leaf is actually a quite nice car. It sounds to me like you've never been in one.
- legitster 3y ago
  Hydrogen is a poor bet, but it's more important domestically in Japan where their industrial policy is attempting to steer away from reliance on China as a major supplier (for batteries). And the SUV is really only a compliance vehicle for the state of California - it's not really intended to sell well. Both Leafs and Teslas are examples of cars that depreciate like crazy after purchased. Meanwhile, a hybrid Rav4 or Sienna with 50k miles can be had for... $2000 off of MSRP. If you wanted a new EV Toyota just based off of brand loyalty, and Toyota just sold you a crappy rebadged Leaf, Toyota would not be left with much brand loyalty.
Yhippa 3y ago
This makes me wonder if all the really cool new EVs that are coming out are going to be riddled with issues in about 4 or so years. Most of these seem to have come out in the past two years and I thought Tesla had a huge head start on them. They appear to have closed the gap. Time will tell.
- legitster 3y ago
  It seems like drivetrain-wise Teslas do pretty okay. Build-quality and servicing though still sounds like a nightmare. The median age of a car in the US is 12 years though. Somehow I am wondering if any of these EV cars will ever penetrate as deep on the used market as ICE cars do. Will a teenager in 2040 be able to buy the equivalent of a $1500 EV beater to get to and from school?

kalupa 3y ago

they're probably trying to bank on the hydrogen tech they appear to be heavily invested in. I see H-powered Toyotas in town, Vancouver,BC, regularly and it's the only car brand I know that even sells one at all

rwmj 3y ago
How do they fill them up? Is there infrastructure for hydrogen refueling??
ChatGTP 3y ago
I think they’re also trying to keep jobs going, this is Japan after all. That’s why they love hybrids. All the existing plants can keep operating. It seems an electric vehicle would require less parts and therefore less people are involved in manufacturing. Imo this is why they like Hydrogen too, more complex to manufacture. Keeps the whole show going.
legitster 3y ago
They are also heavily invested in Solid state battery technology, but nothing has panned out from that yet either.

mikestew 3y ago

Nissan shipped the Leaf to the U. S. market in 2011 (after being delayed by an earthquake and tsunami). Tesla was spitting out S's, what, eleven years ago? There's "not being first to market", and then there's being caught with your pants down. Excuses can be made, but it appears to me that a long-term strategy of hydrogen was a poor bet, and now in 2023 they just now release a lack-luster SUV that I don't think is going to sell well. I say this as someone with an almost twenty year old Toyota/Scion in the drive. We got rid of the Leaf, wanted another Toyota, but since Toyota didn't sell EVs, they lost a sale to Hyundai. Either Toyota can "cannibalize" their hybrids, or someone else will be happy to do it for them.

housemusicfan 3y ago
The Leaf is a glorified golf cart, it is not comparable to a Toyota family car.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  The leaf is actually a quite nice car. It sounds to me like you've never been in one.
legitster 3y ago
Hydrogen is a poor bet, but it's more important domestically in Japan where their industrial policy is attempting to steer away from reliance on China as a major supplier (for batteries). And the SUV is really only a compliance vehicle for the state of California - it's not really intended to sell well. Both Leafs and Teslas are examples of cars that depreciate like crazy after purchased. Meanwhile, a hybrid Rav4 or Sienna with 50k miles can be had for... $2000 off of MSRP. If you wanted a new EV Toyota just based off of brand loyalty, and Toyota just sold you a crappy rebadged Leaf, Toyota would not be left with much brand loyalty.

Yhippa 3y ago

This makes me wonder if all the really cool new EVs that are coming out are going to be riddled with issues in about 4 or so years. Most of these seem to have come out in the past two years and I thought Tesla had a huge head start on them. They appear to have closed the gap. Time will tell.

legitster 3y ago
It seems like drivetrain-wise Teslas do pretty okay. Build-quality and servicing though still sounds like a nightmare. The median age of a car in the US is 12 years though. Somehow I am wondering if any of these EV cars will ever penetrate as deep on the used market as ICE cars do. Will a teenager in 2040 be able to buy the equivalent of a $1500 EV beater to get to and from school?