4 ms·

I think "dark matter" bullshit is a good example of that: you create mathematical model of the universe, but the reality does not match predictions of your mode

I think "dark matter" bullshit is a good example of that: you create mathematical model of the universe, but the reality does not match predictions of your model, so what do you do? You invent "dark matter". Now tell me: how is this any different than claiming that you have invisible, untouchable dragon hanging out in your garage? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage

xboxnolifes 3y ago
> Now tell me: how is this any different than claiming that you have invisible, untouchable dragon hanging out in your garage? Dark matter is the exact opposite of this. Dark matter is a term used because we don't understand it. It's a place-in for "matter that doesn't match our existing understanding of matter". People aren't embracing it's existence. They are trying to figure out what it is, and why do our current models not account for it properly.
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
One is a hypothesis that will be tested and either verified or dismissed based on evidence, the other is fantasy that can never be falsified.
- swader999 3y ago
  You can look at the data on NDE. The aware studies are interesting. Then there's remote viewing and CIA notes on those things that point to interesting research. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R0017002... And the missing page in the above doc: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7e4g3/found-page-25-of-the-cias-gateway-report-on-astral-projection https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7e4g3/found-page-25-of-the-... Going out of body is fairly easy to do as well.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    > You can look at the data on NDE. The aware studies are interesting. If it's possible and testable and reproducible, then it falls under the umbrella of science. So I don't see how it's special in any way. The dragon example consciously resists any attempt to test it at every turn, which is not true of NDE.
lnwlebjel 3y ago
It's different in the sense that the idea of dark matter allows you to make predictions. If it makes the model work, it gives you new directions to go and new things to discover. If the predictions don't work out, the model gets tossed. A good example of this is the aether hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether
tivert 3y ago
> I think "dark matter" bullshit is a good example of that: you create mathematical model of the universe, but the reality does not match predictions of your model, so what do you do? You invent "dark matter". > Now tell me: how is this any different than claiming that you have invisible, untouchable dragon hanging out in your garage? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage Another example is dismissing experiences that your model can't handle as illusions. I've seen both the passage of time and consciousness dismissed in that way. Also scientists aren't above inventing enormous fanciful constructions make the universe conform to their ideological assumptions and intuitions: see steady-state theory, the multiverse, etc. At some point (probably now or soon), humanity will reach the limit of what can be probed scientifically. When that happens, I predict those invented constructions will stick around and perhaps become even more prominent.
yongjik 3y ago
Not this thing again ... Dark matter is in a sense the opposite of an invisible dragon in your garage. Nobody wants to have an unexplained, invisible cloud of particles hanging around. It's as if every time you get into your garage you can smell sulfur, you see huge talon marks every once in a while, along with half-eaten carcasses, and you occasionally find your thermometer melted into a pool of plastic. However you hate the idea as a homeowner, the only available conclusion is that there's an invisible thingy in your garage made of god-knows-what that does things that cannot be explained unless you assume its existence. So you call this thing "that invisible thingy in my garage," and next thing you know, everybody's calling you names and talking of phlogiston and ether.

xboxnolifes 3y ago

> Now tell me: how is this any different than claiming that you have invisible, untouchable dragon hanging out in your garage? Dark matter is the exact opposite of this. Dark matter is a term used because we don't understand it. It's a place-in for "matter that doesn't match our existing understanding of matter". People aren't embracing it's existence. They are trying to figure out what it is, and why do our current models not account for it properly.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

One is a hypothesis that will be tested and either verified or dismissed based on evidence, the other is fantasy that can never be falsified.

swader999 3y ago
You can look at the data on NDE. The aware studies are interesting. Then there's remote viewing and CIA notes on those things that point to interesting research. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R0017002... And the missing page in the above doc: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7e4g3/found-page-25-of-the-cias-gateway-report-on-astral-projection https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7e4g3/found-page-25-of-the-... Going out of body is fairly easy to do as well.
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > You can look at the data on NDE. The aware studies are interesting. If it's possible and testable and reproducible, then it falls under the umbrella of science. So I don't see how it's special in any way. The dragon example consciously resists any attempt to test it at every turn, which is not true of NDE.

lnwlebjel 3y ago

It's different in the sense that the idea of dark matter allows you to make predictions. If it makes the model work, it gives you new directions to go and new things to discover. If the predictions don't work out, the model gets tossed. A good example of this is the aether hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether

tivert 3y ago

> I think "dark matter" bullshit is a good example of that: you create mathematical model of the universe, but the reality does not match predictions of your model, so what do you do? You invent "dark matter". > Now tell me: how is this any different than claiming that you have invisible, untouchable dragon hanging out in your garage? https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage Another example is dismissing experiences that your model can't handle as illusions. I've seen both the passage of time and consciousness dismissed in that way. Also scientists aren't above inventing enormous fanciful constructions make the universe conform to their ideological assumptions and intuitions: see steady-state theory, the multiverse, etc. At some point (probably now or soon), humanity will reach the limit of what can be probed scientifically. When that happens, I predict those invented constructions will stick around and perhaps become even more prominent.

yongjik 3y ago

Not this thing again ... Dark matter is in a sense the opposite of an invisible dragon in your garage. Nobody wants to have an unexplained, invisible cloud of particles hanging around. It's as if every time you get into your garage you can smell sulfur, you see huge talon marks every once in a while, along with half-eaten carcasses, and you occasionally find your thermometer melted into a pool of plastic. However you hate the idea as a homeowner, the only available conclusion is that there's an invisible thingy in your garage made of god-knows-what that does things that cannot be explained unless you assume its existence. So you call this thing "that invisible thingy in my garage," and next thing you know, everybody's calling you names and talking of phlogiston and ether.