7 ms·

Intuit is guilty of using a whole range of dark UI patterns to trick people into paying for products they don't need. Last year I almost paid $80 (surprise at t

Intuit is guilty of using a whole range of dark UI patterns to trick people into paying for products they don't need. Last year I almost paid $80 (surprise at the END of the entire TurboTax flow) and clicked back 10 steps to realize that they showed a deceptive screen that implied that you had to select that option. Their marketing emails are particularly deceptive, and if you try to opt out of them and unsubscribe, they force you to enter personal information you don't readily have access to to "confirm your identity." I lost a lot of respect for Intuit from the lack of respect they show consumers.

JAlexoid 3y ago
I mean... They pay off literally every single lawmaker, to make sure that you will pay them for doing your taxes. If you had any respect for them at any time, you probably shouldn't have. The level of corruption that they support is stunningly humongous. And even if you're using your "local tax person" - you're likely to be still making them money... as many CPAs use Intuit's software.
- harikb 3y ago
  My tax guy uses Intuit Software as well. And I pay him 10x the cost of Turbo Tax. But I pay him for expertise / peace of mind. Intuit can fleece me all they want. Give me non-BS advanced features and I will gladly pay way more. Just don't trick my mom & dad. But I guess they need to make their money from the masses.
  - JAlexoid 3y ago
    Let's be real - us paying them $4000 per year isn't going to make them money. Tricking your parents into paying for things that they don't even need - that's where the money is. Selling 20 $2mil cars per years isn't as valuable as selling 1mil "cheap" $700 iPhones per year.
    - pkulak 3y ago
      Holy smokes do you ever have complicated taxes!
      - JAlexoid 3y ago
        I do, and when I do I get a tax person. But 7 out of 8 years in a row my taxes were standard deduction... Question is - how does it excuse Intuit at all?
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Democrats have the opportunity to change that. Every time Republicans are in charge, the Democrats scream loudly about letting the IRS offer their own free tax filing service and blame Republicans for it not happening. The IRS is trying again right now to offer free filing and the Democrats are in charge of Congress and the presidency. They can make this happen or they can let the IRS's work go to waste and reserve this issue for screaming at Republicans again next time they have control over the White House or part of Congress.
  - jakearmitage 3y ago
    Are you assuming Democrats are inherently good and well-meaning and could not make this happen due to a missed opportunity? Because corruption goes both ways. There's a reason one party blames the other for X when the other is in power, and then do nothing about X when they are in power.
    - sinistersnare 3y ago
      I agree with you. The Democrats and Republicans in our government mostly agree on the topic we are discussing in this thread. There is no radical movement discussed within our government to actually solve these problems. No politician is making serious attempts to improve our bureaucratic system.
    - harpooniker 3y ago
      The Inflation Reduction Act directed the IRS to create a feasibility study on direct file "The report focuses on three areas: taxpayer opinions, cost and feasibility. The report also includes an analysis conducted by an independent third party, as required by the statute. The report also lays out the potential benefits and challenges associated with the IRS implementing a Direct File program." https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-submits-direct-file-report-to-congress-treasury-department-directs-pilot-to-evaluate-key-issues https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-submits-direct-file-report-...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- soundsgoodtome 3y ago
  Honestly, I think there are just a lot of really naive people who visit this site… and I think there are a lot of bad actors here who are complicit too. Anyone who’s been in the game for more than a few years knows how amoral companies are. Marketers and growth PMs are incentivized to convert, regardless of the methods used. Execs don’t give a shit unless there’s an impact on revenue. Anecdata - I PM a product suite that serves growth/marketers. If you’re reading this, your company has probably used it, is actively using it, or has considered using it. I regularly ask customers and prospects about their KPIs during research calls - in the end, conversion is all that matters.
dfxm12 3y ago
Why would you respect it in the first place? It's a faceless corporation that for decades has been lobbying congress for the privilege of ripping you off. Save your respect for real people, at least.
Beached 3y ago
after getting owned by intuits bs 2 years in a row, I went to an accountant. $70/y, he does EVRYYHING, no gotyas or bs. I walk in or drop off all the papers he needs, he asks me a bunch of questions, files everything, I leave with all my federal, state, and local taxes filed. he guarantees a backup, I get a envelope with everything in it labels nicely, and if I ever get audited, he guarantees that he will handle all of the audit procedures as part of the cost, no extra cost. that type of easy service and peace of mind is just toooo good for only $70. blows my mind that everyone doesn't do it.
godelski 3y ago
> Last year I almost paid $80 (surprise at the END of the entire TurboTax flow) and clicked back 10 steps to realize that they showed a deceptive screen that implied that you had to select that option. I hit this two years ago. When I finally undid it (took me a good 20-30 minutes), it removed all the work I did. I then had the option to restore it for $80 and it was still implying that I had to pay this no matter what. I spent another 20 minutes trying to fill things out again before I hit a loop that wouldn't let me through without paying. The issue seemed to be that I was working remote in a different state and it was trying to get me to file taxes with both states even though it said I didn't need to file anything! I sucked it up and paid. So I avowed to never use them again. Last year I used FreeTaxUSA and had no issues. I just paid $15 for state and that was it. My taxes are simple, able to use a 1040EZ, having to pay $80 is a fucking joke. Fuck TurboTax, I'm never going back. Fuck this whole system too. We should at minimum have return free filing for 1040EZ users but really should for almost everyone. Seriously, Meta/Equifax/etc can collect all my financial info but the fucking IRS can't use all the information that is legally required to be sent to them to send me a fucking bill (really a rebate)? What a fucking joke. One party wants to kill the IRS, why not at least make it not a fucking joke and bureaucratic shit show first?
genter 3y ago
I always found it amazing that the amount of time it took to query their database was the exact amount needed to complete the animation.
gumballindie 3y ago
Good thing i turned down an offer with them, in london, uk, over ten years ago. Money was sweet but i sensed the stink.
lapetitejort 3y ago
Other sites are no better. This yeah I went through the whole flow on H&R Block, and only at the end did they say they couldn't file my taxes because of one 1099-NEC. However I still had to pay full price to print out my forms. Which I had to print and send myself.
- quickthrowman 3y ago
  I’ve used Free Tax USA for the past 6-7 years, and there are no dark patterns. Free federal filing will be the default option if you qualify (based on AGI), offers for extra services are clear about not being necessary for filing, and filing state taxes costs maybe $12. I don’t usually recommend products but Free Tax USA is one of the most honest companies I’ve dealt with online, they’ve never thrown a curveball at me. It’s refreshing to deal with a company who is satisfied with just making money and not squeezing every possible dollar out of you.
- ndiddy 3y ago
  I've used Free File Fillable Forms (https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php) for federal tax for the past few years and haven't had any issues. There's no payment whatsoever. For state, I've filed on my state's website.
- turrican 3y ago
  I’m not going to shill too hard for a tax prep company, but I’ve used FreeTaxUSA for years and am satisfied. Cheap, simple, no hidden fees I’ve noticed.
  - ThatPlayer 3y ago
    I would love to keep using them, but looking at my current tax year, I want to file a specific state form that they do not support. For estimated taxes calculated by annualized income installment method because my income is tilted towards the end of the year. I haven't paid any estimated taxes for the first two quarters, and without this I'd have underpayment fees. I did ask them about this two years ago, so if they don't add it for 2023, I'll have to look into other options.
_jal 3y ago
It is interesting to note how ideology ends up being used as just another marketing tool in situations like this. Resisting simplifying tax filing, to keep the tax system annoying, is seen as a way to build anti-tax political support. Among other things, that creates opportunities for barnacles like Intuit to scam people out of money like this. And once Intuit funds those pols' re-election bids, the cycle of life is complete. Coalitions are funny things. Sometimes it is hard to tell who is suckering whom.
everforward 3y ago
> Their marketing emails are particularly deceptive, and if you try to opt out of them and unsubscribe, they force you to enter personal information you don't readily have access to to "confirm your identity." That shouldn't be legal, and I'm surprised that doesn't get their emails redirected to /dev/null by everyone. Stuff like that doesn't even deserve the modicum of respect that getting sent to Spam denotes, mail providers should just reject it at the MTA until Intuit stops.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Even having to enter my email address is too much. You sent it to me, you need a two click unsubscribe at worst. Otherwise it’s spam.
  - everforward 3y ago
    Totally agree. I would be behind email providers requiring bulk emails to implement whatever Gmail uses to provide that Unsubscribe button at the top of emails so you don't even have to go to their website. Any degree of difficulty is a bad pattern, and email providers should help discourage that with a heavy hand. Edit: And also severe penalties for failing to actually unsubscribe someone within 24 hours of clicking that button. I don't want to hear any "it could take up to a week" bullshit. If people can transfer millions of dollars in a matter of days, they should be able to take me off a mailing list instantly.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      So long as "whatever Gmail uses" really means "whatever the IETF [or other standards body] RFC defines" and gmail just happens to implement that RFC, sure. Otherwise, I'm not inclined to give an advertising company control over the worldwide opt-out process for advertising emails... The 24 hours vs 7 days thing doesn't bother me at all, frankly. I care about not getting your bullshit for the next decade. If you squeak 4 more in and then stop because you have (or claim to have) a bunch of nightly processes that all need to complete, fine.

JAlexoid 3y ago

I mean... They pay off literally every single lawmaker, to make sure that you will pay them for doing your taxes. If you had any respect for them at any time, you probably shouldn't have. The level of corruption that they support is stunningly humongous. And even if you're using your "local tax person" - you're likely to be still making them money... as many CPAs use Intuit's software.

harikb 3y ago
My tax guy uses Intuit Software as well. And I pay him 10x the cost of Turbo Tax. But I pay him for expertise / peace of mind. Intuit can fleece me all they want. Give me non-BS advanced features and I will gladly pay way more. Just don't trick my mom & dad. But I guess they need to make their money from the masses.
- JAlexoid 3y ago
  Let's be real - us paying them $4000 per year isn't going to make them money. Tricking your parents into paying for things that they don't even need - that's where the money is. Selling 20 $2mil cars per years isn't as valuable as selling 1mil "cheap" $700 iPhones per year.
  - pkulak 3y ago
    Holy smokes do you ever have complicated taxes!
    - JAlexoid 3y ago
      I do, and when I do I get a tax person. But 7 out of 8 years in a row my taxes were standard deduction... Question is - how does it excuse Intuit at all?
Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Democrats have the opportunity to change that. Every time Republicans are in charge, the Democrats scream loudly about letting the IRS offer their own free tax filing service and blame Republicans for it not happening. The IRS is trying again right now to offer free filing and the Democrats are in charge of Congress and the presidency. They can make this happen or they can let the IRS's work go to waste and reserve this issue for screaming at Republicans again next time they have control over the White House or part of Congress.
- jakearmitage 3y ago
  Are you assuming Democrats are inherently good and well-meaning and could not make this happen due to a missed opportunity? Because corruption goes both ways. There's a reason one party blames the other for X when the other is in power, and then do nothing about X when they are in power.
  - sinistersnare 3y ago
    I agree with you. The Democrats and Republicans in our government mostly agree on the topic we are discussing in this thread. There is no radical movement discussed within our government to actually solve these problems. No politician is making serious attempts to improve our bureaucratic system.
  - harpooniker 3y ago
    The Inflation Reduction Act directed the IRS to create a feasibility study on direct file "The report focuses on three areas: taxpayer opinions, cost and feasibility. The report also includes an analysis conducted by an independent third party, as required by the statute. The report also lays out the potential benefits and challenges associated with the IRS implementing a Direct File program." https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-submits-direct-file-report-to-congress-treasury-department-directs-pilot-to-evaluate-key-issues https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-submits-direct-file-report-...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
soundsgoodtome 3y ago
Honestly, I think there are just a lot of really naive people who visit this site… and I think there are a lot of bad actors here who are complicit too. Anyone who’s been in the game for more than a few years knows how amoral companies are. Marketers and growth PMs are incentivized to convert, regardless of the methods used. Execs don’t give a shit unless there’s an impact on revenue. Anecdata - I PM a product suite that serves growth/marketers. If you’re reading this, your company has probably used it, is actively using it, or has considered using it. I regularly ask customers and prospects about their KPIs during research calls - in the end, conversion is all that matters.

dfxm12 3y ago

Why would you respect it in the first place? It's a faceless corporation that for decades has been lobbying congress for the privilege of ripping you off. Save your respect for real people, at least.

Beached 3y ago

after getting owned by intuits bs 2 years in a row, I went to an accountant. $70/y, he does EVRYYHING, no gotyas or bs. I walk in or drop off all the papers he needs, he asks me a bunch of questions, files everything, I leave with all my federal, state, and local taxes filed. he guarantees a backup, I get a envelope with everything in it labels nicely, and if I ever get audited, he guarantees that he will handle all of the audit procedures as part of the cost, no extra cost. that type of easy service and peace of mind is just toooo good for only $70. blows my mind that everyone doesn't do it.

godelski 3y ago

> Last year I almost paid $80 (surprise at the END of the entire TurboTax flow) and clicked back 10 steps to realize that they showed a deceptive screen that implied that you had to select that option. I hit this two years ago. When I finally undid it (took me a good 20-30 minutes), it removed all the work I did. I then had the option to restore it for $80 and it was still implying that I had to pay this no matter what. I spent another 20 minutes trying to fill things out again before I hit a loop that wouldn't let me through without paying. The issue seemed to be that I was working remote in a different state and it was trying to get me to file taxes with both states even though it said I didn't need to file anything! I sucked it up and paid. So I avowed to never use them again. Last year I used FreeTaxUSA and had no issues. I just paid $15 for state and that was it. My taxes are simple, able to use a 1040EZ, having to pay $80 is a fucking joke. Fuck TurboTax, I'm never going back. Fuck this whole system too. We should at minimum have return free filing for 1040EZ users but really should for almost everyone. Seriously, Meta/Equifax/etc can collect all my financial info but the fucking IRS can't use all the information that is legally required to be sent to them to send me a fucking bill (really a rebate)? What a fucking joke. One party wants to kill the IRS, why not at least make it not a fucking joke and bureaucratic shit show first?

genter 3y ago

I always found it amazing that the amount of time it took to query their database was the exact amount needed to complete the animation.

gumballindie 3y ago

Good thing i turned down an offer with them, in london, uk, over ten years ago. Money was sweet but i sensed the stink.

lapetitejort 3y ago

Other sites are no better. This yeah I went through the whole flow on H&R Block, and only at the end did they say they couldn't file my taxes because of one 1099-NEC. However I still had to pay full price to print out my forms. Which I had to print and send myself.

quickthrowman 3y ago
I’ve used Free Tax USA for the past 6-7 years, and there are no dark patterns. Free federal filing will be the default option if you qualify (based on AGI), offers for extra services are clear about not being necessary for filing, and filing state taxes costs maybe $12. I don’t usually recommend products but Free Tax USA is one of the most honest companies I’ve dealt with online, they’ve never thrown a curveball at me. It’s refreshing to deal with a company who is satisfied with just making money and not squeezing every possible dollar out of you.
ndiddy 3y ago
I've used Free File Fillable Forms (https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/home/default.php) for federal tax for the past few years and haven't had any issues. There's no payment whatsoever. For state, I've filed on my state's website.
turrican 3y ago
I’m not going to shill too hard for a tax prep company, but I’ve used FreeTaxUSA for years and am satisfied. Cheap, simple, no hidden fees I’ve noticed.
- ThatPlayer 3y ago
  I would love to keep using them, but looking at my current tax year, I want to file a specific state form that they do not support. For estimated taxes calculated by annualized income installment method because my income is tilted towards the end of the year. I haven't paid any estimated taxes for the first two quarters, and without this I'd have underpayment fees. I did ask them about this two years ago, so if they don't add it for 2023, I'll have to look into other options.

_jal 3y ago

It is interesting to note how ideology ends up being used as just another marketing tool in situations like this. Resisting simplifying tax filing, to keep the tax system annoying, is seen as a way to build anti-tax political support. Among other things, that creates opportunities for barnacles like Intuit to scam people out of money like this. And once Intuit funds those pols' re-election bids, the cycle of life is complete. Coalitions are funny things. Sometimes it is hard to tell who is suckering whom.

everforward 3y ago

> Their marketing emails are particularly deceptive, and if you try to opt out of them and unsubscribe, they force you to enter personal information you don't readily have access to to "confirm your identity." That shouldn't be legal, and I'm surprised that doesn't get their emails redirected to /dev/null by everyone. Stuff like that doesn't even deserve the modicum of respect that getting sent to Spam denotes, mail providers should just reject it at the MTA until Intuit stops.

bombcar 3y ago
Even having to enter my email address is too much. You sent it to me, you need a two click unsubscribe at worst. Otherwise it’s spam.
- everforward 3y ago
  Totally agree. I would be behind email providers requiring bulk emails to implement whatever Gmail uses to provide that Unsubscribe button at the top of emails so you don't even have to go to their website. Any degree of difficulty is a bad pattern, and email providers should help discourage that with a heavy hand. Edit: And also severe penalties for failing to actually unsubscribe someone within 24 hours of clicking that button. I don't want to hear any "it could take up to a week" bullshit. If people can transfer millions of dollars in a matter of days, they should be able to take me off a mailing list instantly.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    So long as "whatever Gmail uses" really means "whatever the IETF [or other standards body] RFC defines" and gmail just happens to implement that RFC, sure. Otherwise, I'm not inclined to give an advertising company control over the worldwide opt-out process for advertising emails... The 24 hours vs 7 days thing doesn't bother me at all, frankly. I care about not getting your bullshit for the next decade. If you squeak 4 more in and then stop because you have (or claim to have) a bunch of nightly processes that all need to complete, fine.