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Gotta say, I was not expecting one of the first casualties of the AI revolution to be most of the CSAM industry, but I'm dang happy about it.

by causi 3y ago

tessierashpool 3y ago
well, slow down, there's always tradeoffs. deepfake child porn means that any prosecution or attempt to help the victims now has to go through an additional "was the victim a real human being?" phase, which adds both confusion and expense. add the fact that any system which can generate just one realistic image can also generate 10 million of them, and you get a deluge of deepfakes which could allow the real stuff — the kind that also functions as criminal evidence — to hide in plain sight.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > deepfake child porn means that any prosecution or attempt to help the victims now has to go through an additional "was the victim a real human being?" phase, which adds both confusion and expense. Where on earth is this true? If you're in the US and involved in that scene, you'd better reread the law. The verbiage was ahead of its time and specifically-phrased to mitigate these very shenanigans: "photorealistic," not "photographic." One of the fun things people used to do was create a diptych of a child's face next to a scene involving a faceless/cropped-but-legal teen. Technically, no child was harmed, but simply framing it that way runs afoul of US law. We do not fuck around on this. The UK has convicted people for manga. > add the fact that any system which can generate just one realistic image can also generate 10 million of them, and you get a deluge of deepfakes which could allow the real stuff — the kind that also functions as criminal evidence — to hide in plain sight. Hahaha. Considering the above, I would advise against generating and possessing 10 million photorealistic CSAM images.
  - candiodari 3y ago
    Yeah what is currently still in doubt is what happens if you do what some websites currently do, and send out the machine learning model, to be run client-side, rather than any actual graphic material. No doubt the police would want to convict. But that's a problem, because nobody is sure whether their model can't be used to generate things that would be considered CSAM (what does it even mean for an imagined model to be a minor? Now of course the same applies to manga)
nkingsy 3y ago
I would worry about normalization of the behavior leading to more people seeking the real thing.
- naniwaduni 3y ago
  Right, and video games cause violence.
  - candiodari 3y ago
    Wait, are you under the impression that do-gooders in the government have given up the outlaw "violent" video games fight? https://www.wglt.org/show/wglts-sound-ideas/2021-03-08/illinois-video-game-ban-bill-faces-uphill-legal-scientific-battles https://www.wglt.org/show/wglts-sound-ideas/2021-03-08/illin... Besides the "scientific" consensus is 1) video games do indeed cause violence by a tiny little bit. Not much And the world's consensus is 2) yeah, we don't care And the most telling bit about CSAM activists' character is their massive across-the-board support for punitive measures (which if you check turn out to mostly be against minors), and zero support for youth services infrastructure (you know, actually helping victims)
conradfr 3y ago
But it can still be illegal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_pornography_depicting_minors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_po...

Gotta say, I was not expecting one of the first casualties of the AI revolution to be most of the CSAM industry, but I'm dang happy about it.

by causi 3y ago

Gotta say, I was not expecting one of the first casualties of the AI revolution to be most of the CSAM industry, but I'm dang happy about it.

tessierashpool 3y ago

well, slow down, there's always tradeoffs. deepfake child porn means that any prosecution or attempt to help the victims now has to go through an additional "was the victim a real human being?" phase, which adds both confusion and expense. add the fact that any system which can generate just one realistic image can also generate 10 million of them, and you get a deluge of deepfakes which could allow the real stuff — the kind that also functions as criminal evidence — to hide in plain sight.

jstarfish 3y ago
> deepfake child porn means that any prosecution or attempt to help the victims now has to go through an additional "was the victim a real human being?" phase, which adds both confusion and expense. Where on earth is this true? If you're in the US and involved in that scene, you'd better reread the law. The verbiage was ahead of its time and specifically-phrased to mitigate these very shenanigans: "photorealistic," not "photographic." One of the fun things people used to do was create a diptych of a child's face next to a scene involving a faceless/cropped-but-legal teen. Technically, no child was harmed, but simply framing it that way runs afoul of US law. We do not fuck around on this. The UK has convicted people for manga. > add the fact that any system which can generate just one realistic image can also generate 10 million of them, and you get a deluge of deepfakes which could allow the real stuff — the kind that also functions as criminal evidence — to hide in plain sight. Hahaha. Considering the above, I would advise against generating and possessing 10 million photorealistic CSAM images.
- candiodari 3y ago
  Yeah what is currently still in doubt is what happens if you do what some websites currently do, and send out the machine learning model, to be run client-side, rather than any actual graphic material. No doubt the police would want to convict. But that's a problem, because nobody is sure whether their model can't be used to generate things that would be considered CSAM (what does it even mean for an imagined model to be a minor? Now of course the same applies to manga)

nkingsy 3y ago

I would worry about normalization of the behavior leading to more people seeking the real thing.

naniwaduni 3y ago
Right, and video games cause violence.
- candiodari 3y ago
  Wait, are you under the impression that do-gooders in the government have given up the outlaw "violent" video games fight? https://www.wglt.org/show/wglts-sound-ideas/2021-03-08/illinois-video-game-ban-bill-faces-uphill-legal-scientific-battles https://www.wglt.org/show/wglts-sound-ideas/2021-03-08/illin... Besides the "scientific" consensus is 1) video games do indeed cause violence by a tiny little bit. Not much And the world's consensus is 2) yeah, we don't care And the most telling bit about CSAM activists' character is their massive across-the-board support for punitive measures (which if you check turn out to mostly be against minors), and zero support for youth services infrastructure (you know, actually helping victims)

conradfr 3y ago

But it can still be illegal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_pornography_depicting_minors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_fictional_po...