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FTC judge decides Intuit’s ‘free’ TurboTax ads misled consumers
- baby 3y agoNo kidding. Turbotax is THE case study of dark patterns.
- gumballindie 3y agoI dont live in the us, but i am curious, what prevents open source developers from writing a decent open source alternative? Or other smaller companies from competing with intuit? Is there a law only allowing them to idk use government apis? To me it sounds like intuit is about to be disrupted one way or another.
- screamingninja 3y agoThe tax code is very complex, changes quite a bit every year, and a FOSS developer could not guarantee the accuracy of the generated tax forms. On top of that, each state has a different tax code, which further complicates any development effort.
- asu_thomas 3y ago[dead]
- electrondood 3y agoIntuit is guilty of using a whole range of dark UI patterns to trick people into paying for products they don't need. Last year I almost paid $80 (surprise at the END of the entire TurboTax flow) and clicked back 10 steps to realize that they showed a deceptive screen that implied that you had to select that option. Their marketing emails are particularly deceptive, and if you try to opt out of them and unsubscribe, they force you to enter personal information you don't readily have access to to "confirm your identity." I lost a lot of respect for Intuit from the lack of respect they show consumers.
- JAlexoid 3y agoI mean... They pay off literally every single lawmaker, to make sure that you will pay them for doing your taxes. If you had any respect for them at any time, you probably shouldn't have. The level of corruption that they support is stunningly humongous. And even if you're using your "local tax person" - you're likely to be still making them money... as many CPAs use Intuit's software.
- harikb 3y agoMy tax guy uses Intuit Software as well. And I pay him 10x the cost of Turbo Tax. But I pay him for expertise / peace of mind. Intuit can fleece me all they want. Give me non-BS advanced features and I will gladly pay way more. Just don't trick my mom & dad. But I guess they need to make their money from the masses.
- JAlexoid 3y agoLet's be real - us paying them $4000 per year isn't going to make them money. Tricking your parents into paying for things that they don't even need - that's where the money is. Selling 20 $2mil cars per years isn't as valuable as selling 1mil "cheap" $700 iPhones per year.
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoDemocrats have the opportunity to change that. Every time Republicans are in charge, the Democrats scream loudly about letting the IRS offer their own free tax filing service and blame Republicans for it not happening. The IRS is trying again right now to offer free filing and the Democrats are in charge of Congress and the presidency. They can make this happen or they can let the IRS's work go to waste and reserve this issue for screaming at Republicans again next time they have control over the White House or part of Congress.
- somehnguy 3y agoGlad to see they're facing consequences for this misleading nonsense. They got me one year where I went through the entire process only to find out at the end it cost money if I wanted to input my student loans. Due to that (and many other dark patterns noticed during the process) I will never voluntarily use an Intuit product again. FreeTaxUSA doesn't pull any nonsense & I've been happy with it every year since.
- madcow2011 3y agoI've used FreeTaxUSA for the past two years as well, and have been very happy with it. I'll put all my info into turboTax, and let it calculate my refund, then put the same data into FreeTax and verify it's the same. It's saved me a LOT of money.
- gavinhoward 3y agoMy relative works for FreeTaxUSA. She's happy to hear you're happy!
- vuln 3y agoAt the time of writing this their stock is only down .41% or 2.41$. I’m sure they’ll get a fine of 1% of their earnings.
- dessimus 3y agoA company centered around accounting and taxes? They'll figure out a way to claim its 2000% of their earnings and on appeal claim that its too burdensome.
- datadrivenangel 3y agoAfter a surprise bill of over $100 from H&R block I've been using FreeTaxUSA and have been very happy to pay $15 for state filing. The UI is just as good as TurboTax or H&R block.
- dmoy 3y agoThe UI for 8949 is worse than TurboTax, for the edge case of having a lot of non-covered shares. (Technically you can mail a paper copy of all the 1099-B to the IRS to work around this problem) And I think some 1099-R codes used to have buggy question flow, but it's better now. So far that's the only two things I've found worse than TurboTax, and certainly not worth paying Intuit for.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago> (Technically you can mail a paper copy of all the 1099-B to the IRS to work around this problem) I do this every year. Got into the habit because some index fund thing I had a couple bucks of in my portfolio did some weird shit with stock dividends and ended up producing over a hundred transactions amounting to just over the "round to zero" amount of profit. It's really not that much of a headache as long as you have access to a printer. One form, check a box, scribble "TO THE IRS" on an envelope and jam it and your 1099 in and call it a day. Not a soul is going to bother checking the details anyway, since they already have the contents of your 1099.
- dmoy 3y ago> Not a soul is going to bother checking the details anyway, since they already have the contents of your 1099. the issue is for non-covered shares, where they don't have the full contents of the 1099.
- distract8901 3y agoHR block got me once. They said I needed the premium package for some slightly unusual form that I ended up not actually needing. But once you click that button to enable premium features, there is no possible way of removing it. You're forced to pay the $80 no matter what. I just copied my data to FreeTaxUSA and filed everything for free. Fuck them.
- jaywalk 3y agoI've been very happy with Cash App Taxes for the past few years. They are actually 100% free no matter what. Federal, state, extra forms. All free.
- xkcd-sucks 3y agoOne caveat to this is when CreditKarma Taxes was acquired by CashApp they forced users to sign up for CashApp and install it on a phone in order to continue doing taxes
- DangitBobby 3y agoIt's not even the most annoying login system I have to deal with (2FA is truly out of hand at this point), but I certainly dont appreciate being strong-armed into installing an app that I want nothing to do with.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoIntuit bought Credit Karma but had to divest from their free tax filing option, they're a good alternative.
- DangitBobby 3y agoCredit Karma's tax filing app was bought by Cash App and now has a login system that requires you to have Cash App on your phone to do taxes on your desktop. I use it regardless because the alternatives are somehow worse, but I think the writing is on the wall.
- dang 3y agohttps://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/09/administrative-law-judge-issues-initial-decision-ftcs-case-against-intuit-inc https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/09/...
- agensaequivocum 3y agoAdministrative law "judges" are unconstitutional.
- SllX 3y agoThat hasn’t been determined, and while they’re sometimes controversial, I’m not sure they are unconstitutional as long as there’s a path to appeal to Article III courts. Just as a point of reference, military tribunals and immigration courts also fall outside of Article III as well.
- agensaequivocum 3y ago[flagged]
- lolinder 3y ago5 U.S.C. § 3105 pretty clearly creates a set of administrative law judges under each agency. The decisions reached by these agencies can be appealed in a federal court, making them ultimately inferior to the Supreme Court. What about this setup violates the clause you quoted? https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3105 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3105
- tremon 3y agoI see a lot of handwaving and very little substance. Can you make a direct, explicit argument please?
- lokar 3y ago[flagged]
- MR4D 3y agoFor those who may not understand your comment, this is a summary of the issue at hand here [0] and some commentary here [1]. [0] - https://wp.nyu.edu/compliance_enforcement/2023/06/12/ftc-diminishes-role-of-administrative-law-judge/ https://wp.nyu.edu/compliance_enforcement/2023/06/12/ftc-dim... [1] - https://ogletree.com/insights/supreme-court-ruling-questions-constitutionality-of-ftcs-and-secs-administrative-adjudications-processes-is-osha-next/ https://ogletree.com/insights/supreme-court-ruling-questions...
- ortusdux 3y agoCan we just switch to pre-filled tax forms already? The average American spends about $200/year and 12hrs preparing their taxes. This study from last year found that pre-filled tax forms would be accurate for 42-48% of people. That is already amazing, and I'm sure that number could be doubled over 10-20 years. https://www.nber.org/papers/w30008 https://www.nber.org/papers/w30008
- floren 3y agoHow do you know if you're one of the 42-48%, though? I'd love easier taxes, but not if I've got a 50/50 chance of getting hassled over it in a year.
- OkayPhysicist 3y agoI suspect that number would go way up by just providing a way to declare your dependents. Right now, for the vast majority of the population, especially those who don't just pay an accountant, their taxes consist of a "Where's Waldo" copy-and-paste adventure combining information from their W-2s and 1099s onto a handful of other forms, then adding up like 3 numbers. If that describes your tax filing experience, a pre-filled form would be perfect. Any omitted details are more likely to be in the government's favor than your own.
- baby 3y agoBut that’s the average American. Like everything in America, if you make enough money it’s not a problem. Just pay for an accountant.
- JAlexoid 3y agoYeah... My accountant wants $2300 per year to make sure that we withhold the correct amount. (that sum is also no tax deductible) The whole system is created to screw you... and yet many people defend it.
- Beached 3y agohow would you handle the large number of deductions and credits everyone files for yearly? does the fed know of o bought a solar generator and plan on taking a credit? do they know if I had my windows replaced and plan on a deduction? do they know how many square feet my at home office is, or how much I spent in supplies? do they know if I plan on taking the general deduction or itemizing?