4 ms·
My biggest gripe against the title of the poll "Climate or economic growth?" is the underlying assumption that economic growth comes with comfort growth. Going
by phh 3y ago
My biggest gripe against the title of the poll "Climate or economic growth?" is the underlying assumption that economic growth comes with comfort growth. Going from oil heating to heat pumps will decrease GDP while improving comfort. Making durable fridge will decrease GDP while improving comfort, etc. Not fixing the climate will increase the GDP because of all the mitigations we'll have to implement (iirc French government estimated 15% of GDP will go to climate mitigations in 2050)
Now about the thesis of OP, even if we assume a full solar + battery world, and manage to keep that +2C, electricity pricing will swing a lot (it'll probably often go negative or at least to 0) which will lead to discomforts (people not able to pay for electricity in the winter) without state protections, even if economic growth is here.
And then electricity is not enough. Simply keeping the production of autos has a considerable CO2 cost.
- m_mueller 3y agoMuch better than heat pumps: good thermal insulation, central air snd a heat exchanger. This solved the root of the problem, heat being transferred. For the little that‘s left over, depending on climate, you can add a small heat pump that’s mostly shut off.
- phh 3y agoYup you're right. Thanks for correcting me.
- HardlyCurious 3y agoWhy do you think an electric heat pump will increase comfort over oil heating? It's not that I think heat pumps are bad, I just didn't know there was a claim of any improvements beyond efficiency / environmental benefits.
- htss2013 3y agoIf there is no other difference besides they use less energy to produce the same amount of heating, then you have extra money, and extra money can buy lots of comforts. Why does the comfort have do come directly from the pump?
- talldatethrow 3y agoElectricity in California is 36 cents or more per kw. Maybe it makes sense in states paying 6 to 15 cents, but I assume I'll end up paying more if forced to switch to heat pumps.
- curriculum 3y agoCalifornia is moving towards a system which would introduce a monthly fixed cost based on your income, while simultaneously decreasing the cost of electricity per kWh (see: AB 205). Heat pumps become more attractive after such a change.
- pxmpxm 3y agoTaking money from person A and giving it to person B doesn't actually make anything cheaper.
- curriculum 3y agoMy claim wasn't that an Income Graduated Fixed Charge would make your electric bill go down from what it currently is -- it could very well go up. My claim is that, assuming an IGFC is implemented and the marginal cost of electricity goes down considerably, then a heat pump becomes cheaper to operate. You'll be paying the same fixed cost to be connected to the grid, whether you have a gas furnace or an electric heat pump. It might just be that the newly-lowered electric rates finally make a heat pump more cost-effective than a gas furnace.
- talldatethrow 3y agoWait, so once they set your rate you can use as much electricity as you want and still pay the same rate?? That's insane. Crypto miners and EV drivers rejoice.
- curriculum 3y agoNot quite. Right now, (most) California residential electric bills are entirely volumetric, meaning that you pay for what you use — if you use zero, you pay (close to) zero. Under the new system, everyone’s bill will instead have a sizable fixed component (determined by household income) for being connected to the grid, and a volumetric component (determined by the amount that you use). The new price per kilowatt hour will be smaller than the existing rates.
- yencabulator 3y agoNot the parent, but having heating and cooling both solved with one gadget makes this room much more comfortable than before.
- mperham 3y agoThey keep the temperature more even because they can run at a variable rate, versus a furnace which is either running 100% or not at all.
- mcronce 3y agoNote that this isn't true for all heat pumps, nor all furnaces. A forced-air system can vary the air handler speed, and a hydronic system can vary the water temperature; with heat pumps, there exist variable-speed compressors, but there also exist single-speed compressors.