3 ms·

Nice point. I, too, think that CS stands to benefit from more diversity, of all kinds. I find it interesting that you assumed that by "some women" I meant "me.

by tessr 15y ago

Nice point. I, too, think that CS stands to benefit from more diversity, of all kinds. I find it interesting that you assumed that by "some women" I meant "me." These are not actually my views, exactly, on brogramming. If I were the only woman in the world, I wouldn't consider "brogrammer" offense. I agree--most of them are pretty harmless. Blah blah red bull. But there ARE a significant number of women who ARE offended. And I don't think that you, or me, or anyone else, should tell them to not be offended by it. We haven't had their experiences, you know? Even as a woman in tech, I don't understand the full range of female experiences and perceptions.

arjunnarayan 15y ago
I stand by my point that your ire is misdirected. Here's how I see it: 1. Bros be bro-ing, with alcohol and weights. (not sexist) 2. Bros decide to program, bringing with them their bro-baggage (not sexist). 3. This becomes a meme: brogramming (not sexist). 4. Douchebag recruiters capitalize on latest meme in sleazy fashion, advertising "naked women" (definitely sexist). 5. Some women (ok, more than just you) and all reasonable persons are (rightfully) outraged at that blatant display of sexism. I still don't seen anything offensive about brogramming itself --- insofar as brogramming consists of bros who like to program. If assholes are going to make sexist remarks/be sexist, you are entirely justified in calling them out for those vile acts, and I will happily join you in doing so. But your blogpost reads like a witchhunt against bros for... being bros.
- wpietri 15y ago
  If this were a field where professionals roughly mirrored the population at large, I wouldn't have much of a problem with brogramming. But that's far from the truth. So I am pretty happy to take issue with anything that reinforces the notion that programming is for guys. Also, I think you're a little hasty to suggest that bro-ing has absolutely nothing sexist about it. Consider, for example, Time's photoessay "A Brief History of Bro Culture": http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1997965,00.html http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1997965,00.htm... The subtitle? "Beer and babes, a timeline of bros gone wild". That sounds like objectifying women to me. Or look at the urban dictionary entries on bro: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro There's quite a lot there about chicks, homophobia, women as targets, etc. And you see the same themes cropping up in other bro-related media.

by tessr 15y ago

arjunnarayan 15y ago

I stand by my point that your ire is misdirected. Here's how I see it: 1. Bros be bro-ing, with alcohol and weights. (not sexist) 2. Bros decide to program, bringing with them their bro-baggage (not sexist). 3. This becomes a meme: brogramming (not sexist). 4. Douchebag recruiters capitalize on latest meme in sleazy fashion, advertising "naked women" (definitely sexist). 5. Some women (ok, more than just you) and all reasonable persons are (rightfully) outraged at that blatant display of sexism. I still don't seen anything offensive about brogramming itself --- insofar as brogramming consists of bros who like to program. If assholes are going to make sexist remarks/be sexist, you are entirely justified in calling them out for those vile acts, and I will happily join you in doing so. But your blogpost reads like a witchhunt against bros for... being bros.

wpietri 15y ago
If this were a field where professionals roughly mirrored the population at large, I wouldn't have much of a problem with brogramming. But that's far from the truth. So I am pretty happy to take issue with anything that reinforces the notion that programming is for guys. Also, I think you're a little hasty to suggest that bro-ing has absolutely nothing sexist about it. Consider, for example, Time's photoessay "A Brief History of Bro Culture": http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1997965,00.html http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1997965,00.htm... The subtitle? "Beer and babes, a timeline of bros gone wild". That sounds like objectifying women to me. Or look at the urban dictionary entries on bro: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro There's quite a lot there about chicks, homophobia, women as targets, etc. And you see the same themes cropping up in other bro-related media.