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I'm often amazed how old people that lived the majority of their lives under a communist regime (in my country) that exposed them to propaganda all the time can

I'm often amazed how old people that lived the majority of their lives under a communist regime (in my country) that exposed them to propaganda all the time can fall so easily for for various "youtube revelations". I feel if anyone it is the younger generation that should be more susceptible to such misinformation. Everyone who lived during the communist times knew media as worthless. It's reflected in the jokes of the era, for example "- Have you seen today's newspaper? - No. I'm a non smoker" (explanation is - no one would ever buy a newspaper for news, only smokers buy it for rolling cigarettes).

dredmorbius 3y ago
Interesting observation, though there's an explanation which suggests itself. Under Soviet Bloc regimes, propaganda was an instrument of the state, and was emitted through state organs, such as Pravda and Isvestia, Russian for "truth" and "news", leading to the Soviet-era ironic quip: there is no truth in Pravda and no news in Isvestia. <https://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/31/world/russia-s-purveyor-of-truth-pravda-dies-after-84-years.html https://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/31/world/russia-s-purveyor-o...> That is, the principle mechanism for avoiding propaganda was to ignore the "mainstream press" under such regimes. Which would suggest putting more faith in alternative sources and the rumour / gossip channel. Whilst there remain issues with mainstream media, even in non-authoritarian states, it's far more often the alternative media and (largely online) gossip channels which now serve propaganda. This is a case where previously-useful adaptations now prove poor guides.
pixl97 3y ago
The problem is you're ignoring the propaganda they did fall for. In the US we have the "America is the best and most free country in the world" propaganda that tons of us fall for. Also the "police are great and are only out for your good" propaganda. Then, especially the older generation are completely surprised every time a hidden cam video of the cops doing some bad crap and say "well, that's just cops now, it wasn't like that back then". We all have biases and propaganda we fall for. The issue with the internet versus past media is we now have unlimited sources of propaganda 24/7, rather than it just being select articles in the paper or on the news. Even if you only fall for something 1% of the time, if you see 1000 of it a day, you still fall for crap all the time.
- d_sem 3y ago
  I'm interested in the response from the commenter you replied to. I suspect their premise is missing the point you rightly highlight. To most people Propaganda is only things they don't believe. But if they believe something, its reality. Culture and ideology can be difficult to explain to someone who's enveloped in it. I will list a few things that an American (like me) may not realize is part propaganda/cultural influence. - Governments can regulate Food to be healthy and not overly processed with refined sugars. - You can experience freedom without owning a car. - The Metric system can easily be adopted. - Supporting paid-sick leave / vacation is not communist. ( I've genuinely heard this a lot)
  - colonCapitalDee 3y ago
    Another commenter said that the difference between truth and propaganda is what you believe the truth is. - Would I like food to generally be healthier and contain less processed sugars? Yes. Do I think that the government should regulate food to be that way? Not necessarily. I won't claim something ridiculous like "regulating food is a violation of the nth amendment!", but I'm generally skeptical of government regulation without a clear and compelling case for why it's necessary. While the obesity epidemic is a serious issue, I'm not convinced that regulating food is the way to solve it. I guess my skepticism towards regulation comes at least partially from cultural influence, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. - You can absolutely experience freedom without a car, but the ability a car gives you to just drive anywhere (where there's a road) is unmatched. - Customary/metric interop is the real issue, but the thing is most Americans don't interact with the metric system at all. Thus, for most people switching to metric is a lot of work (you gotta replace rulers and tape measures and learn to think in km and km/hr) for zero gain. We really should have just gone all in metric in the 1800s, at this point we're stuck with customary units :( - I've never heard someone describe paid sick leave as communist, but it doesn't surprise me that people do. Totally agree on this one
    - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
      'Communist' is just a slur these days, bandied about by folks with often no clear idea what it means.

dredmorbius 3y ago

Interesting observation, though there's an explanation which suggests itself. Under Soviet Bloc regimes, propaganda was an instrument of the state, and was emitted through state organs, such as Pravda and Isvestia, Russian for "truth" and "news", leading to the Soviet-era ironic quip: there is no truth in Pravda and no news in Isvestia. <https://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/31/world/russia-s-purveyor-of-truth-pravda-dies-after-84-years.html https://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/31/world/russia-s-purveyor-o...> That is, the principle mechanism for avoiding propaganda was to ignore the "mainstream press" under such regimes. Which would suggest putting more faith in alternative sources and the rumour / gossip channel. Whilst there remain issues with mainstream media, even in non-authoritarian states, it's far more often the alternative media and (largely online) gossip channels which now serve propaganda. This is a case where previously-useful adaptations now prove poor guides.

pixl97 3y ago

The problem is you're ignoring the propaganda they did fall for. In the US we have the "America is the best and most free country in the world" propaganda that tons of us fall for. Also the "police are great and are only out for your good" propaganda. Then, especially the older generation are completely surprised every time a hidden cam video of the cops doing some bad crap and say "well, that's just cops now, it wasn't like that back then". We all have biases and propaganda we fall for. The issue with the internet versus past media is we now have unlimited sources of propaganda 24/7, rather than it just being select articles in the paper or on the news. Even if you only fall for something 1% of the time, if you see 1000 of it a day, you still fall for crap all the time.

d_sem 3y ago
I'm interested in the response from the commenter you replied to. I suspect their premise is missing the point you rightly highlight. To most people Propaganda is only things they don't believe. But if they believe something, its reality. Culture and ideology can be difficult to explain to someone who's enveloped in it. I will list a few things that an American (like me) may not realize is part propaganda/cultural influence. - Governments can regulate Food to be healthy and not overly processed with refined sugars. - You can experience freedom without owning a car. - The Metric system can easily be adopted. - Supporting paid-sick leave / vacation is not communist. ( I've genuinely heard this a lot)
- colonCapitalDee 3y ago
  Another commenter said that the difference between truth and propaganda is what you believe the truth is. - Would I like food to generally be healthier and contain less processed sugars? Yes. Do I think that the government should regulate food to be that way? Not necessarily. I won't claim something ridiculous like "regulating food is a violation of the nth amendment!", but I'm generally skeptical of government regulation without a clear and compelling case for why it's necessary. While the obesity epidemic is a serious issue, I'm not convinced that regulating food is the way to solve it. I guess my skepticism towards regulation comes at least partially from cultural influence, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. - You can absolutely experience freedom without a car, but the ability a car gives you to just drive anywhere (where there's a road) is unmatched. - Customary/metric interop is the real issue, but the thing is most Americans don't interact with the metric system at all. Thus, for most people switching to metric is a lot of work (you gotta replace rulers and tape measures and learn to think in km and km/hr) for zero gain. We really should have just gone all in metric in the 1800s, at this point we're stuck with customary units :( - I've never heard someone describe paid sick leave as communist, but it doesn't surprise me that people do. Totally agree on this one
  - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
    'Communist' is just a slur these days, bandied about by folks with often no clear idea what it means.