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I also don’t believe any privacy that Apple alleges, given their actions in China, attempts at iCloud scanning, etc. Post-Snowden, it would seem naive to believ

I also don’t believe any privacy that Apple alleges, given their actions in China, attempts at iCloud scanning, etc. Post-Snowden, it would seem naive to believe in any such assertions, beyond the level of “this might protect me okay against average criminals, assuming I install all the latest updates and use features like lockdown mode.”

carimura 3y ago
Technically they backed down from CSAM scanning after public pressure. Can we say the same thing about Google and/or Meta?
kaba0 3y ago
I don’t see China’s relevance here: they have two choices: play by their rules or leave on the table shitloads of money. Maybe not morally the best decision, but it is not black-and-white evil I would say. For a Chinese person that also has to play by the same rules it is an added choice, and since all are similarly hijacked by the government this aspect doesn’t make it any worse. Also, CP scanning was deliberately proposed as a way to actually enable e2e icloud - but they just didn’t want to be liable, as storing CP encrypted on their servers may also be problematic. So, I don’t see them malicious against privacy at all, in fact that is a core selling point of theirs, it would hurt them greatly to cheapen it out.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  > I don’t see China’s relevance here: they have two choices: play by their rules or leave on the table shitloads of money. This is also exactly how the US operates WRT state surveillance, so it confuses me that you don’t see the relevance.
- Scoring6931 3y ago
  It boggles my mind that some people don't see the relevance. Apple provides a backdoor into Chinese citizens' iCloud to the Chinese government, while praising itself as the bastion of privacy. Doing so because of money is all the more hypocritical.
  - kaba0 3y ago
    So what, there is ios and ios China. You are using the former. Would a separate Signal China invalidate the whole protocol? Sure, on a local moral compass it is no good look, but if Chinese people are forced by their governments into that -- is really a private company from another country supposed to fight with them over it? In any other case I think you would agree that private companies should STFU about local laws, right? That fight is on the Chinese people.

carimura 3y ago

Technically they backed down from CSAM scanning after public pressure. Can we say the same thing about Google and/or Meta?

kaba0 3y ago

I don’t see China’s relevance here: they have two choices: play by their rules or leave on the table shitloads of money. Maybe not morally the best decision, but it is not black-and-white evil I would say. For a Chinese person that also has to play by the same rules it is an added choice, and since all are similarly hijacked by the government this aspect doesn’t make it any worse. Also, CP scanning was deliberately proposed as a way to actually enable e2e icloud - but they just didn’t want to be liable, as storing CP encrypted on their servers may also be problematic. So, I don’t see them malicious against privacy at all, in fact that is a core selling point of theirs, it would hurt them greatly to cheapen it out.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
> I don’t see China’s relevance here: they have two choices: play by their rules or leave on the table shitloads of money. This is also exactly how the US operates WRT state surveillance, so it confuses me that you don’t see the relevance.
Scoring6931 3y ago
It boggles my mind that some people don't see the relevance. Apple provides a backdoor into Chinese citizens' iCloud to the Chinese government, while praising itself as the bastion of privacy. Doing so because of money is all the more hypocritical.
- kaba0 3y ago
  So what, there is ios and ios China. You are using the former. Would a separate Signal China invalidate the whole protocol? Sure, on a local moral compass it is no good look, but if Chinese people are forced by their governments into that -- is really a private company from another country supposed to fight with them over it? In any other case I think you would agree that private companies should STFU about local laws, right? That fight is on the Chinese people.