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And Apple now with their ad business. How are they fundamentally different?

by soperj 3y ago

doublerabbit 3y ago
I agree. Apple has always had an advertising business, remember apps with ad banners in the early IOS store? However the fundamental difference is that their model is being an hardware company.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Their "ecosystem" model is why we need crowbar legislation like Europe's DMA to force interoperability. Make no mistake, Apple is playing for keeps just as hard as Google is: https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-attestation/ https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-att... All of these companies deserve their due scrutiny. Specifically around the illusion of privacy though, nobody has further to fall than Apple.
  - musictubes 3y ago
    Right, Apple has the most to lose if they resort to the business model of Facebook so they have an incentive to stick to what they are doing.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Their userbase is more-or-less captive either way. All of FAANG is boiling the frog, just at different speeds.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > Apple has always had an advertising business, remember apps with ad banners in the early IOS store? Remember what their advertising clients disliked about Apple's ad platform compared to the likes of Facebook and Google? > A new report on Advertising Age has revealed what advertisers think of Apple's arrogance when it comes to its mobile advertising platform and its tight grip on user data. "One person familiar with the situation exec said Apple's refusal to share data makes it the best-looking girl at the party, forced to wear a bag over her head," the AdAge report read. https://www.techtimes.com/articles/3568/20140222/apple-cares-about-your-privacy-more-than-advertising-dollars-via-iad-really.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/3568/20140222/apple-cares...
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    This is a decade-old story, and neither Google nor Facebook sell or share data, they sell access to their ad networks. Apple sells access to their ad network, too.
GeekyBear 3y ago
Advertising doesn't require that you relentlessly spy on users, it's just more profitable if you do so.
- Draiken 3y ago
  Then you know what will happen. They will relentlessly spy on their users. This is a for-profit company. It will always do what is more profitable, even if they don't do it right away.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > Then you know what will happen. There is an interesting lesson you can learn from history: Google Maps vs Apple Maps. Google set up their system to track each individual's location history forever, even if the user turned off the setting that Google said would stop this behavior. This data can be handy when you're trying to keep map data updated. However, you don't have to track each user's location constantly to get the benefit. > “We specifically don’t collect data, even from point A to point B,” notes Cue. “We collect data — when we do it — in an anonymous fashion, in subsections of the whole, so we couldn’t even say that there is a person that went from point A to point B. The segments that he is referring to are sliced out of any given person’s navigation session. Neither the beginning or the end of any trip is ever transmitted to Apple. Rotating identifiers, not personal information, are assigned to any data or requests sent to Apple and it augments the “ground truth” data provided by its own mapping vehicles with this “probe data” sent back from iPhones. Because only random segments of any person’s drive is ever sent and that data is completely anonymized, there is never a way to tell if any trip was ever a single individual. https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-from-the-ground-up/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-f...
    - Draiken 3y ago
      That's an awesome story and I'd love to believe that's how it will always be. But I can't. I'm sure we could find great examples of other companies that made similar privacy aware decisions, only to then turn around and throw all that out of the window for increased profits. Call me skeptical, but these entities have one purpose: profits. Why would I trust they won't ever misuse my data?

And Apple now with their ad business. How are they fundamentally different?

by soperj 3y ago

And Apple now with their ad business. How are they fundamentally different?

I agree. Apple has always had an advertising business, remember apps with ad banners in the early IOS store? However the fundamental difference is that their model is being an hardware company.

smoldesu 3y ago
Their "ecosystem" model is why we need crowbar legislation like Europe's DMA to force interoperability. Make no mistake, Apple is playing for keeps just as hard as Google is: https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-attestation/ https://httptoolkit.com/blog/apple-private-access-tokens-att... All of these companies deserve their due scrutiny. Specifically around the illusion of privacy though, nobody has further to fall than Apple.
- musictubes 3y ago
  Right, Apple has the most to lose if they resort to the business model of Facebook so they have an incentive to stick to what they are doing.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Their userbase is more-or-less captive either way. All of FAANG is boiling the frog, just at different speeds.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> Apple has always had an advertising business, remember apps with ad banners in the early IOS store? Remember what their advertising clients disliked about Apple's ad platform compared to the likes of Facebook and Google? > A new report on Advertising Age has revealed what advertisers think of Apple's arrogance when it comes to its mobile advertising platform and its tight grip on user data. "One person familiar with the situation exec said Apple's refusal to share data makes it the best-looking girl at the party, forced to wear a bag over her head," the AdAge report read. https://www.techtimes.com/articles/3568/20140222/apple-cares-about-your-privacy-more-than-advertising-dollars-via-iad-really.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/3568/20140222/apple-cares...
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  This is a decade-old story, and neither Google nor Facebook sell or share data, they sell access to their ad networks. Apple sells access to their ad network, too.

GeekyBear 3y ago

Advertising doesn't require that you relentlessly spy on users, it's just more profitable if you do so.

Draiken 3y ago
Then you know what will happen. They will relentlessly spy on their users. This is a for-profit company. It will always do what is more profitable, even if they don't do it right away.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > Then you know what will happen. There is an interesting lesson you can learn from history: Google Maps vs Apple Maps. Google set up their system to track each individual's location history forever, even if the user turned off the setting that Google said would stop this behavior. This data can be handy when you're trying to keep map data updated. However, you don't have to track each user's location constantly to get the benefit. > “We specifically don’t collect data, even from point A to point B,” notes Cue. “We collect data — when we do it — in an anonymous fashion, in subsections of the whole, so we couldn’t even say that there is a person that went from point A to point B. The segments that he is referring to are sliced out of any given person’s navigation session. Neither the beginning or the end of any trip is ever transmitted to Apple. Rotating identifiers, not personal information, are assigned to any data or requests sent to Apple and it augments the “ground truth” data provided by its own mapping vehicles with this “probe data” sent back from iPhones. Because only random segments of any person’s drive is ever sent and that data is completely anonymized, there is never a way to tell if any trip was ever a single individual. https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-from-the-ground-up/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-f...
  - Draiken 3y ago
    That's an awesome story and I'd love to believe that's how it will always be. But I can't. I'm sure we could find great examples of other companies that made similar privacy aware decisions, only to then turn around and throw all that out of the window for increased profits. Call me skeptical, but these entities have one purpose: profits. Why would I trust they won't ever misuse my data?