4 ms·

I've never really understood why match fixing or throwing a match would be a crime. It takes what is a private matter between competitors and a league organizer

I've never really understood why match fixing or throwing a match would be a crime. It takes what is a private matter between competitors and a league organizer and makes it a public matter that the courts supposedly can deal with. If it was a private matter leagues would be inclined to either self-police the behavior or just admit the whole thing is rigged. I mean, WWE seems to do just fine with a completely fixed system.

simplicio 3y ago
I think the problem is that, historically, leagues claim to self-police but then the amounts of $ involved ends up meaning enough individuals can be bribed/threatened/etc. that "fair" matches end up fixed. In the best case, this ends up as fraud and so ends up in the courts anyways, in the worst case, the amounts of $ at play mean people turn to violence and...well that ends up in the courts. So think the idea is that we're better off just making it a public matter from the start, rather then waiting till things escalate into other forms of crime.
raincom 3y ago
It is a 'crime against sports'!
mrob 3y ago
It should be handled by civil law. The leagues sell tickets to fair competition. If the players fix the match, then the league is selling a defective product, and common sense suggests they should refund the ticket sales. And the players were presumably contracted to provide fair play, so if they damage the league by breech of contract then common sense suggests the league should be able to sue the players responsible for the cost of the refund. They could require players to take out insurance to ensure they'll always be able to pay. Making it a criminal matter is just a subsidy to the gambling industry.
rootsudo 3y ago
"WWE seems to do just fine with a completely fixed system." Exactly, that's what I don't get. Is the criminal act that it's a 3rd party person and not the league itself?
- mistrial9 3y ago
  corruption is a team sport
- smcin 3y ago
  You cannot legally wager on WWE anywhere in the US, currently (or I imagine anywhere outside it either). [https://www.forbes.com/betting/novelty/wwe/ https://www.forbes.com/betting/novelty/wwe/] I didn't know anyone took it seriously as a sport, let alone would want to bet on it. But apparently yes. It's hilarious to hear the term "Academy Awards... a fixed entertainment event". (Waiting for cynics to mention elections.) > According to a March 2023 CNBC report, WWE—which produces fixed sports-style events such as WrestleMania and Royal Rumble—wants to quell gambling regulator concerns by reducing the chances that high-profile match outcomes leak to the public. > WWE is “working with” the accounting firm EY, better known as Ernst & Young. EY and rival PwC have helped safeguard results for the Academy Awards, a fixed entertainment event available for wagering in select sports betting states. As it stands, betting operators like DraftKings Sportsbook, FanDuel Sportsbook, BetMGM Sportsbook and Caesars Sportsbook have offered limited wagering on the Oscars. > WWE, which agreed to merge with UFC... is reportedly pursuing regulated wagering in CO, IN, MI. However, multiple state gambling regulators disputed the CNBC report that used anonymous sources.
jstarfish 3y ago
> I've never really understood why match fixing or throwing a match would be a crime. It's institutionalized fraud, and a fundraising method for organized crime. > WWE seems to do just fine with a completely fixed system. Nobody is currently permitted to wager anything on those fixed WWE matches. As with all other regulations intended to protect idiots from themselves, the industry is looking to repeal it.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  I'm fine with banning all forms of gambling in the United States
  - rootsudo 3y ago
    Me too. But how do we differ economic gambling vs sports? Only allowed to do it through a broker and not a casino?
    - sidewndr46 3y ago
      I don't know what you mean by economic gambling
      - callalex 3y ago
        Prediction Markets come to mind as an egregious example.
      - rootsudo 3y ago
        Speculation. Stock markets, futures, options, etc.
        smcin 3y ago
        'financial speculation'
  - freeopinion 3y ago

simplicio 3y ago

I think the problem is that, historically, leagues claim to self-police but then the amounts of $ involved ends up meaning enough individuals can be bribed/threatened/etc. that "fair" matches end up fixed. In the best case, this ends up as fraud and so ends up in the courts anyways, in the worst case, the amounts of $ at play mean people turn to violence and...well that ends up in the courts. So think the idea is that we're better off just making it a public matter from the start, rather then waiting till things escalate into other forms of crime.

raincom 3y ago

It is a 'crime against sports'!

mrob 3y ago

It should be handled by civil law. The leagues sell tickets to fair competition. If the players fix the match, then the league is selling a defective product, and common sense suggests they should refund the ticket sales. And the players were presumably contracted to provide fair play, so if they damage the league by breech of contract then common sense suggests the league should be able to sue the players responsible for the cost of the refund. They could require players to take out insurance to ensure they'll always be able to pay. Making it a criminal matter is just a subsidy to the gambling industry.

rootsudo 3y ago

"WWE seems to do just fine with a completely fixed system." Exactly, that's what I don't get. Is the criminal act that it's a 3rd party person and not the league itself?

mistrial9 3y ago
corruption is a team sport
smcin 3y ago
You cannot legally wager on WWE anywhere in the US, currently (or I imagine anywhere outside it either). [https://www.forbes.com/betting/novelty/wwe/ https://www.forbes.com/betting/novelty/wwe/] I didn't know anyone took it seriously as a sport, let alone would want to bet on it. But apparently yes. It's hilarious to hear the term "Academy Awards... a fixed entertainment event". (Waiting for cynics to mention elections.) > According to a March 2023 CNBC report, WWE—which produces fixed sports-style events such as WrestleMania and Royal Rumble—wants to quell gambling regulator concerns by reducing the chances that high-profile match outcomes leak to the public. > WWE is “working with” the accounting firm EY, better known as Ernst & Young. EY and rival PwC have helped safeguard results for the Academy Awards, a fixed entertainment event available for wagering in select sports betting states. As it stands, betting operators like DraftKings Sportsbook, FanDuel Sportsbook, BetMGM Sportsbook and Caesars Sportsbook have offered limited wagering on the Oscars. > WWE, which agreed to merge with UFC... is reportedly pursuing regulated wagering in CO, IN, MI. However, multiple state gambling regulators disputed the CNBC report that used anonymous sources.

jstarfish 3y ago

> I've never really understood why match fixing or throwing a match would be a crime. It's institutionalized fraud, and a fundraising method for organized crime. > WWE seems to do just fine with a completely fixed system. Nobody is currently permitted to wager anything on those fixed WWE matches. As with all other regulations intended to protect idiots from themselves, the industry is looking to repeal it.

sidewndr46 3y ago
I'm fine with banning all forms of gambling in the United States
- rootsudo 3y ago
  Me too. But how do we differ economic gambling vs sports? Only allowed to do it through a broker and not a casino?
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    I don't know what you mean by economic gambling
    - callalex 3y ago
      Prediction Markets come to mind as an egregious example.
    - rootsudo 3y ago
      Speculation. Stock markets, futures, options, etc.
      - smcin 3y ago
        'financial speculation'
- freeopinion 3y ago