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If you negotiate an employment contract make sure that there is some sort of break up fee in case a company tries to pull this sort of nonsense on you. There's

by pg_bot 3y ago

If you negotiate an employment contract make sure that there is some sort of break up fee in case a company tries to pull this sort of nonsense on you. There's no reason why someone should be able to upend your life without due compensation. Accepting a job offer is not something that is done on a whim for most people, so it should be fairly easy to add in a clause that states "If this offer is rescinded for any reason after it has been signed by both parties, {{COMPANY}} agrees to pay 9 months of the negotiated salary to {{EMPLOYEE}}"

CapstanRoller 3y ago
With what leverage? Software devs have no union to back them up, and in a tight job market there are many desperate candidates who would sign the employment agreement as-is within minutes of receiving it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
turquoisevar 3y ago
In 99% of the cases the candidate has exactly 0 leverage to negotiate this and the person on the other end will be laugh at this notion. Instead of weird fantasies about power that doesn’t exist, how about we acknowledge the skewed relationship between a(n) (prospective) employee and an employer like the rest of the civilized world and do away with “fire at will”. If something like this happens in the EU, then it’s likely the company would at least be on the hook to pay the salary for the duration of the initial contract that was signed (often 6 month minimum). I say likely, because of minor variations between countries, but it’s a given in most countries.
- theGnuMe 3y ago
  If only workers could organize or something…
  - nitwit005 3y ago
    The union isn't going to care about someone who never worked for the company.
    - jrflowers 3y ago
      This is a good point. It is a shame that there aren’t unions organized around professions like pipe fitters, lampworkers, or crane operators. There is no conceptual framework for a non-company union
    - Zetobal 3y ago
      Somebody got their information about unions from the wrong news outlets...
      - nitwit005 3y ago
        Very well. Please share an article about a union intervening to fix this.
- braza 3y ago
  In some places in Central Europe and Nordics, some companies has contracts that telhas a penalty if any of the parts terminated before the start day. In one case I signed one that the company of me would pay the total of 3 salaries if any of us terminate the employment agreement in advance.
Aurornis 3y ago
> If you negotiate an employment contract In the United States and many other countries, most people don't have employment contracts. Your offer letter is a not an employment contract. > so it should be fairly easy to add in a clause that states "If this offer is rescinded for any reason after it has been signed by both parties, {{COMPANY}} agrees to pay 9 months of the negotiated salary to {{EMPLOYEE}}" This is a wild fantasy. In what world do you think a company would agree to 9 months of salary for a rescinded offer? Maybe if you're taking a CEO role, but not for an average employee. I have no idea why you think "it should be fairly easy" to get a company to agree to this. Let's assume for a second that you got a company to agree to this 9 months of pay for rescinded offer clause. If they wanted to rescind your offer, they'd take one look at that clause and decide to hire you for 1 day or 1 week or 1 month and then lay you off.
Scoring6931 3y ago
This is so out touch that it is laughable
MikeTheRocker 3y ago
Good luck getting something like that in writing at any big tech company
- KingOfCoders 3y ago
  Easy, every big tech company has stricter contracts outside of the US. The companies are not the problem, the US is.
  - KingOfCoders 3y ago
    (Having worked as the CTO of an eBay Inc. company in Germany)
- pg_bot 3y ago
  It's honestly not that hard. Given that both parties are serious about working together, even considering rescinding a signed offer is ridiculous. There aren't many reasons why a company could legitimately back out of an employment contract, and those can be added to the fine print. If the company want to be protected against potential criminality or an injury that would cause you to be unable to perform the duties of the job you can write that into the contract. Everything is negotiable, you just have to ask.
  - MikeTheRocker 3y ago
    Curious if you've ever done this personally? I've only ever worked at companies with tens to hundreds of thousands of employees, and my perspective has been that the bureaucracy is such that any nonstandard interaction with the company is pretty much off the table.
    - tough 3y ago
      A good analogy might be those interactions are off-the-menu but very much on the table, you just need to state your case and be worth it for them to entertain the detour
    - 3y ago
vsareto 3y ago
I don't know who gets employment contracts that allow negotiation like that (certainly not regular developers under $150k), but my hunch is it would never have been people they're rescinding offers to.

by pg_bot 3y ago

CapstanRoller 3y ago

With what leverage? Software devs have no union to back them up, and in a tight job market there are many desperate candidates who would sign the employment agreement as-is within minutes of receiving it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

turquoisevar 3y ago

In 99% of the cases the candidate has exactly 0 leverage to negotiate this and the person on the other end will be laugh at this notion. Instead of weird fantasies about power that doesn’t exist, how about we acknowledge the skewed relationship between a(n) (prospective) employee and an employer like the rest of the civilized world and do away with “fire at will”. If something like this happens in the EU, then it’s likely the company would at least be on the hook to pay the salary for the duration of the initial contract that was signed (often 6 month minimum). I say likely, because of minor variations between countries, but it’s a given in most countries.

theGnuMe 3y ago
If only workers could organize or something…
- nitwit005 3y ago
  The union isn't going to care about someone who never worked for the company.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    This is a good point. It is a shame that there aren’t unions organized around professions like pipe fitters, lampworkers, or crane operators. There is no conceptual framework for a non-company union
  - Zetobal 3y ago
    Somebody got their information about unions from the wrong news outlets...
    - nitwit005 3y ago
      Very well. Please share an article about a union intervening to fix this.
braza 3y ago
In some places in Central Europe and Nordics, some companies has contracts that telhas a penalty if any of the parts terminated before the start day. In one case I signed one that the company of me would pay the total of 3 salaries if any of us terminate the employment agreement in advance.

Aurornis 3y ago

> If you negotiate an employment contract In the United States and many other countries, most people don't have employment contracts. Your offer letter is a not an employment contract. > so it should be fairly easy to add in a clause that states "If this offer is rescinded for any reason after it has been signed by both parties, {{COMPANY}} agrees to pay 9 months of the negotiated salary to {{EMPLOYEE}}" This is a wild fantasy. In what world do you think a company would agree to 9 months of salary for a rescinded offer? Maybe if you're taking a CEO role, but not for an average employee. I have no idea why you think "it should be fairly easy" to get a company to agree to this. Let's assume for a second that you got a company to agree to this 9 months of pay for rescinded offer clause. If they wanted to rescind your offer, they'd take one look at that clause and decide to hire you for 1 day or 1 week or 1 month and then lay you off.

Scoring6931 3y ago

This is so out touch that it is laughable

MikeTheRocker 3y ago

Good luck getting something like that in writing at any big tech company

KingOfCoders 3y ago
Easy, every big tech company has stricter contracts outside of the US. The companies are not the problem, the US is.
- KingOfCoders 3y ago
  (Having worked as the CTO of an eBay Inc. company in Germany)
pg_bot 3y ago
It's honestly not that hard. Given that both parties are serious about working together, even considering rescinding a signed offer is ridiculous. There aren't many reasons why a company could legitimately back out of an employment contract, and those can be added to the fine print. If the company want to be protected against potential criminality or an injury that would cause you to be unable to perform the duties of the job you can write that into the contract. Everything is negotiable, you just have to ask.
- MikeTheRocker 3y ago
  Curious if you've ever done this personally? I've only ever worked at companies with tens to hundreds of thousands of employees, and my perspective has been that the bureaucracy is such that any nonstandard interaction with the company is pretty much off the table.
  - tough 3y ago
    A good analogy might be those interactions are off-the-menu but very much on the table, you just need to state your case and be worth it for them to entertain the detour
  - 3y ago

vsareto 3y ago

I don't know who gets employment contracts that allow negotiation like that (certainly not regular developers under $150k), but my hunch is it would never have been people they're rescinding offers to.