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As someone who lives in Shanghai I know that this is patently false. Yes, the apps do have an option to choose if you want cutlery. However, the restaurants you

As someone who lives in Shanghai I know that this is patently false. Yes, the apps do have an option to choose if you want cutlery. However, the restaurants you order from will always throw cutlery packets in regardless of your choice. The reason is that sometimes customers forget that they need cutlery, or click the box by accident, or the person preparing the order read it wrong. If the customer doesn't have anything to eat their food with they'll be understandably upset and leave a bad review. It's safer for the restaurant to always throw them in.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
PurpleRamen 3y ago
Wouldn't it be possible to give the cutlery to the delivery man, and just let them ask if the customers need it?
- antisthenes 3y ago
  Too much friction. Delivery guys aren't your waiters, nor do they want to carry around plastic cutlery packets in their pockets.
- some_random 3y ago
  I haven't talked to a delivery driver since the pandemic started, they just leave food at my door and leave. That said, I don't order delivery that much.
- gruez 3y ago
  Different restaurants have different cutlery. They're not fungible because some might be cuisine specific (eg. asian style spoons vs regular spoons for ramen), or premium restaurants might go for more premium cutlery.
belltaco 3y ago
I can understand doing this in case it's a hotel address but one would assume that only a miniscule number of residences or offices wouldn't have cutlery.
- arghwhat 3y ago
  Lazy people unfortunately like disposable cutlery, and overstate the number of people eating to get extras...
  - gruez 3y ago
    Don't most people have dishwashers? With a dishwasher using real cutlery is almost as easy as using disposable ones, plus you get to use real cutlery rather than the flimsy plastic ones.
    - willprice89 3y ago
      Most people in China (especially lower to middle class) do not have dishwashers. In fact a fair amount of younger people living in Shanghai don't even have a kitchen - they only eat delivery and never cook.
arghwhat 3y ago
I also feel like there is a higher amount of packaging in general, both for takeaway and groceries. I'm looking at you, plastic bags and pastries with plastic trays and second layers of shrink wrap. Even if you eat in, there's the restaurants that outsource cleaning of tableware, resulting in shrink-wrapped cups, bowls etc. (For the confused westeners, found this picture: https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/IMG_1528.jpg?resize=768%2C576&ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/201...)
- gruez 3y ago
  >Even if you eat in, there's the restaurants that outsource cleaning of tableware, resulting in shrink-wrapped cups, bowls etc. (For the confused westeners, found this picture: https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/201 https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/201...) Even if you're shipping dishes offsite for them to be cleaned, there's no real reason why they need to be individually shrinkwrapped. I suspect the reason for the shrinkwrap is to assure customers that the dishes are clean and haven't been contaminated. If that's the reason getting rid of the shrinkwrap is going to be non-trivial, because it's something that customers value very highly.
  - yuppie_scum 3y ago
    Maybe use a biodegradable paper wrap instead? Or, old-school cellophane which according to Wikipedia is biodegradable and compostable.
digging 3y ago
This exact thing also happens in the US. We have restaurants which give the option already (although it's not common). They (around me) also add cutlery about half the time even if requested not to.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
Washington state made it mandatory that single use cutlery is opt in only. I’ve not heard anyone really complain much. I’m glad to not have to throw all that stuff away, always seemed needlessly wasteful. Probably slightly improves margins at restaurants. Single use plastic bags are also largely gone, etc.
leumassuehtam 3y ago
Do you mind if I reach you out to ask some questions, I'm moving to Shanghai soon.
- willprice89 3y ago
  Sure, happy to help
flerovium 3y ago
Mandatory reminder that this narrative of "individual impact" was created and pushed by oil companies to shift blame from them to consumers.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  And is happily endorsed by almost every single company so they can continue to harm the environment and us without any restrictions.
  - gruez 3y ago
    And this is happily endorsed by almost every internet slackitvist so they can continue living their polluting lifestyles (eg. driving their SUVs) without feeling guilty.
    - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
      And this is happily said by Internet slacktivists to try and hold themselves in a higher esteem to others while still polluting AND giving corporations free ability to frack and spill oil everywhere. Truly a guiltless individual.
- gruez 3y ago
  I'm somewhat sympathetic to this argument when it's something like plastic bottles or whatever, because goods have to be packaged in something, and environmentalists who want alternatives are forced to use plastic because it's simply not profitable for companies to offer alternatives. However, in this case that logic doesn't apply. Your decision on whether to get cutlery or not directly impacts whether the amount of plastic being generated, at least in theory.
- ianburrell 3y ago
  I wonder if this focus on plastic waste was created by oil companies to distract people from climate change. Solving climate change depends on solving pollution of greenhouse gases mainly from burning fossil fuels. People seem to conflate any pollution with climate change. It is important to keep plastic waste out of the oceans and other places. But I'm not sure if that can't be solved by making sure they get thrown away. There is plenty of space for landfills. Plastic in landfill is carbon neutral. There is energy in making plastic, but there is energy in making the alternatives and from the price, plastic likely uses less. The other thing is that for climate change, plastic is a pretty small part of the problem, 2% of global emissions. Like it is more important how the restaurant is heated and cooled and how all the customers got there, than what the utensils are made of.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

PurpleRamen 3y ago

Wouldn't it be possible to give the cutlery to the delivery man, and just let them ask if the customers need it?

antisthenes 3y ago
Too much friction. Delivery guys aren't your waiters, nor do they want to carry around plastic cutlery packets in their pockets.
some_random 3y ago
I haven't talked to a delivery driver since the pandemic started, they just leave food at my door and leave. That said, I don't order delivery that much.
gruez 3y ago
Different restaurants have different cutlery. They're not fungible because some might be cuisine specific (eg. asian style spoons vs regular spoons for ramen), or premium restaurants might go for more premium cutlery.

belltaco 3y ago

I can understand doing this in case it's a hotel address but one would assume that only a miniscule number of residences or offices wouldn't have cutlery.

arghwhat 3y ago
Lazy people unfortunately like disposable cutlery, and overstate the number of people eating to get extras...
- gruez 3y ago
  Don't most people have dishwashers? With a dishwasher using real cutlery is almost as easy as using disposable ones, plus you get to use real cutlery rather than the flimsy plastic ones.
  - willprice89 3y ago
    Most people in China (especially lower to middle class) do not have dishwashers. In fact a fair amount of younger people living in Shanghai don't even have a kitchen - they only eat delivery and never cook.

arghwhat 3y ago

I also feel like there is a higher amount of packaging in general, both for takeaway and groceries. I'm looking at you, plastic bags and pastries with plastic trays and second layers of shrink wrap. Even if you eat in, there's the restaurants that outsource cleaning of tableware, resulting in shrink-wrapped cups, bowls etc. (For the confused westeners, found this picture: https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/IMG_1528.jpg?resize=768%2C576&ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/201...)

gruez 3y ago
>Even if you eat in, there's the restaurants that outsource cleaning of tableware, resulting in shrink-wrapped cups, bowls etc. (For the confused westeners, found this picture: https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/201 https://i1.wp.com/countryandahalf.com/wp-content/uploads/201...) Even if you're shipping dishes offsite for them to be cleaned, there's no real reason why they need to be individually shrinkwrapped. I suspect the reason for the shrinkwrap is to assure customers that the dishes are clean and haven't been contaminated. If that's the reason getting rid of the shrinkwrap is going to be non-trivial, because it's something that customers value very highly.
- yuppie_scum 3y ago
  Maybe use a biodegradable paper wrap instead? Or, old-school cellophane which according to Wikipedia is biodegradable and compostable.

digging 3y ago

This exact thing also happens in the US. We have restaurants which give the option already (although it's not common). They (around me) also add cutlery about half the time even if requested not to.

fnordpiglet 3y ago

Washington state made it mandatory that single use cutlery is opt in only. I’ve not heard anyone really complain much. I’m glad to not have to throw all that stuff away, always seemed needlessly wasteful. Probably slightly improves margins at restaurants. Single use plastic bags are also largely gone, etc.

leumassuehtam 3y ago

Do you mind if I reach you out to ask some questions, I'm moving to Shanghai soon.

willprice89 3y ago
Sure, happy to help

flerovium 3y ago

Mandatory reminder that this narrative of "individual impact" was created and pushed by oil companies to shift blame from them to consumers.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
And is happily endorsed by almost every single company so they can continue to harm the environment and us without any restrictions.
- gruez 3y ago
  And this is happily endorsed by almost every internet slackitvist so they can continue living their polluting lifestyles (eg. driving their SUVs) without feeling guilty.
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    And this is happily said by Internet slacktivists to try and hold themselves in a higher esteem to others while still polluting AND giving corporations free ability to frack and spill oil everywhere. Truly a guiltless individual.
gruez 3y ago
I'm somewhat sympathetic to this argument when it's something like plastic bottles or whatever, because goods have to be packaged in something, and environmentalists who want alternatives are forced to use plastic because it's simply not profitable for companies to offer alternatives. However, in this case that logic doesn't apply. Your decision on whether to get cutlery or not directly impacts whether the amount of plastic being generated, at least in theory.
ianburrell 3y ago
I wonder if this focus on plastic waste was created by oil companies to distract people from climate change. Solving climate change depends on solving pollution of greenhouse gases mainly from burning fossil fuels. People seem to conflate any pollution with climate change. It is important to keep plastic waste out of the oceans and other places. But I'm not sure if that can't be solved by making sure they get thrown away. There is plenty of space for landfills. Plastic in landfill is carbon neutral. There is energy in making plastic, but there is energy in making the alternatives and from the price, plastic likely uses less. The other thing is that for climate change, plastic is a pretty small part of the problem, 2% of global emissions. Like it is more important how the restaurant is heated and cooled and how all the customers got there, than what the utensils are made of.