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This article seems to conflate Apple for Meta's privacy violations. Yes, the OS can always make it more difficult to do fingerprinting and the app store could a

by fh9302 3y ago

This article seems to conflate Apple for Meta's privacy violations. Yes, the OS can always make it more difficult to do fingerprinting and the app store could add even more "privacy warnings", but in the end if you use a privacy violating third party app they will always find ways to slurp up all your data. Using this as some kind of argument that Apple doesn't care about privacy is dishonest.

wredue 3y ago
And uh. Let be honest with ourselves here. Our alternative is currently android. So instead of meta slurping up all your shit, google vacuums it all up and then some, and lets even more of it trickle in to meta.
- toastal 3y ago
  Unless you go the custom ROM + microG option that 98% of folks would never do… or you embrace the Linux phone OS which has no ‘apps’ (like that banking app that banned you for rooting your other Linux (Android) phone) & the telephony barely works if it even does. This duopoly sucks.
  - imwillofficial 3y ago
    98%? 100% effectively.
  - soperj 3y ago
    I just use my banking website from my phone. Why install apps?
    - toastal 3y ago
      My bank is detecting Netscape Navigator 4 & you better bet it’s a horrible experience for small viewports, & generally a buggy experience altogether (scoping other sites in my country, they are all just as bad). This is also presupposing the Google doesn’t get its Web Environment Integrity (WEI) initiative foisted upon us allowing the banks to do the same sketchy attestation that they can do with apps from the browser--meaning they could deny you from running an alternative OS, disabling TPM/Pluton/Secure Boot, to having admin/root access like they block it on phones for dubious reasons.
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      I've seen authentication flows that require you to login, or confirm logins, via the bank's app if you're trying to use the account outside of the app itself.
    - hoppyhoppy2 3y ago
      My bank and credit union allow me to deposit checks from my phone via the apps; their websites don't offer that option.
      - soperj 3y ago
        Honestly can't recall the last time I've had to deposit a cheque.
      - toastal 3y ago
        In my country, bank transfers with vendor is usually done via QR code scanning which isn’t supported on the site. The flow for the site would required adding the vendor (even for a one-time transaction) to your bank contact list, manually inputting all of the account numbers/phone/email, then going back & selecting it—something no vendor wants to wait on. If you haven’t done it in 20 minutes, you will be logged out with no cancel logout pop-up & paste has been disabled for … ‘security’?
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I'm not even willing to do that. I physically go to a bank branch to interact with my bank.
      - toastal 3y ago
        Largely this isn’t possible for e-commerce. Some might say it’s just convenience, bun there are a lot of goods only reasonably available online.
  - orf 3y ago
    It’s telling that you think 98% of users wouldn’t do that. It’s 99.9999% of android users my friend.
    - toastal 3y ago
      Good to know that extra 1.9999% was worth a comment. It’s pretty similar to the number of desktop Linux users even (edit: which seem to be over 3% now actually, great).
      - orf 3y ago
        1.9999% of android users would form the 19th largest country in the world by population. It’s absolutely worth clarifying a difference of that scale when you’re talking about something niche.
        toastal 3y ago
        And I want to be a citizen of that country. The Indian custom ROM hackers can be the ruling class with the amount of CPU it takes to build Android & their good will to release it for us.
- jkubicek 3y ago
  You can also just not use any Meta apps. It won't completely prevent Meta from building a shadow profile on you, but it'll help.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  Don't you need to use Google on Android for them to even have your data? I've seen this propagated, but I havent experienced it. Anyway, in the decade of using android, I am not sure what privacy has compromised. I havent received any custom ads from just using my phone. If I search stuff on the official google search, yes I do, but if I use incognito, I do not. (For instance, I like seeing sports scores occasionally, but if I search it with google, I'm bombarded about sports). Google search isnt Android though.
  - wredue 3y ago
    Google isn’t collecting your ethnic status to retarget ads. I mean, maybe it changes results a bit. They’re collecting ethnic status to sell to Cambridge analytica to steal elections.
TheMode 3y ago
The OS is the layer below applications. They obviously can control what data is being sent. Now perhaps that our software model doesn't make it very convenient, but blaming Apple is completely honest and understandable. We should stop seeing our computers as uncontrollable machines that must leak data, they are human made
- dwaite 3y ago
  Could you propose a way to do this? Looking for anything that resembles PII on-screen and cutting off network access, perhaps?
- kaba0 3y ago
  How exactly does that work, similarly to this self-driving algorithm? if (gonna_hit_another_car()) { dont() }

by fh9302 3y ago

wredue 3y ago

And uh. Let be honest with ourselves here. Our alternative is currently android. So instead of meta slurping up all your shit, google vacuums it all up and then some, and lets even more of it trickle in to meta.

toastal 3y ago
Unless you go the custom ROM + microG option that 98% of folks would never do… or you embrace the Linux phone OS which has no ‘apps’ (like that banking app that banned you for rooting your other Linux (Android) phone) & the telephony barely works if it even does. This duopoly sucks.
- imwillofficial 3y ago
  98%? 100% effectively.
- soperj 3y ago
  I just use my banking website from my phone. Why install apps?
  - toastal 3y ago
    My bank is detecting Netscape Navigator 4 & you better bet it’s a horrible experience for small viewports, & generally a buggy experience altogether (scoping other sites in my country, they are all just as bad). This is also presupposing the Google doesn’t get its Web Environment Integrity (WEI) initiative foisted upon us allowing the banks to do the same sketchy attestation that they can do with apps from the browser--meaning they could deny you from running an alternative OS, disabling TPM/Pluton/Secure Boot, to having admin/root access like they block it on phones for dubious reasons.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    I've seen authentication flows that require you to login, or confirm logins, via the bank's app if you're trying to use the account outside of the app itself.
  - hoppyhoppy2 3y ago
    My bank and credit union allow me to deposit checks from my phone via the apps; their websites don't offer that option.
    - soperj 3y ago
      Honestly can't recall the last time I've had to deposit a cheque.
    - toastal 3y ago
      In my country, bank transfers with vendor is usually done via QR code scanning which isn’t supported on the site. The flow for the site would required adding the vendor (even for a one-time transaction) to your bank contact list, manually inputting all of the account numbers/phone/email, then going back & selecting it—something no vendor wants to wait on. If you haven’t done it in 20 minutes, you will be logged out with no cancel logout pop-up & paste has been disabled for … ‘security’?
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I'm not even willing to do that. I physically go to a bank branch to interact with my bank.
    - toastal 3y ago
      Largely this isn’t possible for e-commerce. Some might say it’s just convenience, bun there are a lot of goods only reasonably available online.
- orf 3y ago
  It’s telling that you think 98% of users wouldn’t do that. It’s 99.9999% of android users my friend.
  - toastal 3y ago
    Good to know that extra 1.9999% was worth a comment. It’s pretty similar to the number of desktop Linux users even (edit: which seem to be over 3% now actually, great).
    - orf 3y ago
      1.9999% of android users would form the 19th largest country in the world by population. It’s absolutely worth clarifying a difference of that scale when you’re talking about something niche.
      - toastal 3y ago
        And I want to be a citizen of that country. The Indian custom ROM hackers can be the ruling class with the amount of CPU it takes to build Android & their good will to release it for us.
jkubicek 3y ago
You can also just not use any Meta apps. It won't completely prevent Meta from building a shadow profile on you, but it'll help.
hospitalJail 3y ago
Don't you need to use Google on Android for them to even have your data? I've seen this propagated, but I havent experienced it. Anyway, in the decade of using android, I am not sure what privacy has compromised. I havent received any custom ads from just using my phone. If I search stuff on the official google search, yes I do, but if I use incognito, I do not. (For instance, I like seeing sports scores occasionally, but if I search it with google, I'm bombarded about sports). Google search isnt Android though.
- wredue 3y ago
  Google isn’t collecting your ethnic status to retarget ads. I mean, maybe it changes results a bit. They’re collecting ethnic status to sell to Cambridge analytica to steal elections.

TheMode 3y ago

The OS is the layer below applications. They obviously can control what data is being sent. Now perhaps that our software model doesn't make it very convenient, but blaming Apple is completely honest and understandable. We should stop seeing our computers as uncontrollable machines that must leak data, they are human made

dwaite 3y ago
Could you propose a way to do this? Looking for anything that resembles PII on-screen and cutting off network access, perhaps?
kaba0 3y ago
How exactly does that work, similarly to this self-driving algorithm? if (gonna_hit_another_car()) { dont() }