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On remapping C-x -> C-j: You are meant to press Ctrl with your right hand when you press C-x. Those who came up with these keybindings had this way of using i

On remapping C-x -> C-j: You are meant to press Ctrl with your right hand when you press C-x. Those who came up with these keybindings had this way of using in mind. If you remap it to C-j, it becomes inconvenient because you need to switch between left and right Ctrl in the middle of a chord (though, in some cases this is inevitable). Also, many keybindings are configured so that you can do both C-x (some key) and C-x C-(some key). That is you don't need to release Ctrl in the middle. But, if you change to C-j, then this becomes difficult to execute. Imagine pressing C-j C-m (or C-jm) for example. Bottom line: not a good idea. As for Windows: (I haven't used it roughly since Windows 7, and even then only in one work place that required it). How does the OS affect whether you close Emacs between sessions or not? Or is it still the case that you need to reboot Windows a lot? Also: Magit wasn't always very slow on Windows (although both Git and Magit are and were always slower on Windows, but the magnitude varied at times). As someone who used Magit long before current maintainers took over: it evolved, but not always in the ways that I would like it to. The original Magit is quite a bit less organized (internally, in the way it's coded), but it's a lot simpler and in some ways more intuitive to use. Modern Magit went through a cycle where they tried to do some performance optimizations, but then they added more features, and the performance gains were lost. Today, Magit is plagued with performance issues, and is a very complex (and a very unfriendly) program to debug: it's neigh impossible to get to the source of errors or trace the performance offenders. But, it's still better (at least on Linux) than anything else I tried by a large margin. So, I'm ranting about performance, but will keep using it anyways.

raincole 3y ago
> Imagine pressing C-j C-m (or C-jm) for example. I'm not sure what it means since I just pressed <C-j> <C-m> and I had zero issue about this. I stated in the first post that I use capslock as ctrl. > How does the OS affect whether you close Emacs between sessions or not? I didn't say that I close Emacs between sessions. I meant (I supposed) some Unix people use tools like vterm and magit so they don't even switch to another terminal app. I instead constantly switch between Emacs and Windows Terminal.
- crabbone 3y ago
  I guess, it depends on the physical keyboard layout. The point about C-j C-m is that you'd have to crunch your index finger too much. Well, maybe that's not the best example, as that still seems possible. Try maybe C-j C-/ to really feel the strain. > Windows Terminal Why not use shell from Emacs instead? Emacs has a bunch of terminal emulators. One of those ought to work decently on Windows... If you do it the way you describe, you will set yourself up for a painful experience. Because Windows Terminal (most likely) doesn't have the editing capabilities of Emacs, and (most likely) it doesn't use the same navigation / editing scheme as Emacs, you will have to switch between the two and make mistakes in both of them. It's really annoying to work like that, and it causes people who chose Vi or Emacs to use or to configure other tools to work in the same way their preferred text editor does it. But, ideally, they'd just want the other tools to be embedded in their editor (because any customizations they make for the editor will automatically extend to those tools). Having to deal with switches in how you write or navigate text is similar to having a crying baby nearby or a loud pub etc. Most people wouldn't willingly put themselves in that position.
jorams 3y ago
> You are meant to press Ctrl with your right hand when you press C-x. I've been using Emacs for several years now, and I think the real solution is to turn Caps Lock into another Ctrl. The right Ctrl key is in a very uncomfortable position whether I press it with my pinky or with the base of my hand, so in practice I basically never use it. The left Ctrl key is not as bad, but it's still not comfortable if I need to press it often. Caps Lock, however, only requires a slight adjustment of my left pinky finger to press. Simultaneously pressing x with my left ring finger is slightly weird, but not uncomfortable. There are some other keys on the left side that don't really comfortably combine with left Ctrl or Caps Lock, but I don't run into them often enough for it to be a problem.
- crabbone 3y ago
  I use Kinesis Advantage 2, and have been doing so for about 10 years now. So it's hard for me to relate. But, in a rare event that I need to use a more conventional keyboard, I press right Ctrl with my thumb. In the beginning of my exposure to Emacs I did rebind CapsLock, but that offered little relief. The true quality of life improvement comes from not pressing Ctrl+<anything> with the same hand. Anything that requires Meta or Ctrl -- automatically use both hands.
- dmm 3y ago
  > The right Ctrl key is in a very uncomfortable position whether I press it with my pinky or with the base of my hand When I used a traditional keyboard I rebound ctrl to be next to space so I could easily hit it with my thumb so the layout was like: [super][alt][ctrl][----space----][ctrl][alt][super] But now I use a split keyboard(Kinesis Advantage) with ctrl/alt/super in thumb clusters that make hitting those modifiers really easy.
  - reddit_clone 3y ago
    Yep. I do that same key remapping too. IIRC original suggestion was from Xah Lee
xenophonf 3y ago
> You are meant to press Ctrl with your right hand when you press C-x. Nothing's stopping you from doing it that way, but since Steele and Moon started writing EMACS in 1976 on the PDP-6 and the PDP-10 and probably used VT52 terminals to access those systems, you're probably expected to have a control key on the home row to the left of the caps lock. The VT52 does not have a control key on the right side of the keyboard. I've found that Emacs's ergonomics are greatly improved by swapping the caps lock and left control keys on modern, IBM Model M-inspired keyboard layouts.
- crabbone 3y ago
  I believe this was / is still believed to be the "best historical keyboard" to be used with Emacs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard#/media/File:Space-cadet.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard#/media/Fi... it has Ctrl on both sides. Even if the 76's Emacs wasn't designed for it, most people with decades of Emacs experience would start salivating just from looking at this keyboard. I believe, that when anyone using Emacs is designing key bindings, be it today, ten or twenty years ago -- they think about something like Space Cadet.

raincole 3y ago

> Imagine pressing C-j C-m (or C-jm) for example. I'm not sure what it means since I just pressed <C-j> <C-m> and I had zero issue about this. I stated in the first post that I use capslock as ctrl. > How does the OS affect whether you close Emacs between sessions or not? I didn't say that I close Emacs between sessions. I meant (I supposed) some Unix people use tools like vterm and magit so they don't even switch to another terminal app. I instead constantly switch between Emacs and Windows Terminal.

crabbone 3y ago
I guess, it depends on the physical keyboard layout. The point about C-j C-m is that you'd have to crunch your index finger too much. Well, maybe that's not the best example, as that still seems possible. Try maybe C-j C-/ to really feel the strain. > Windows Terminal Why not use shell from Emacs instead? Emacs has a bunch of terminal emulators. One of those ought to work decently on Windows... If you do it the way you describe, you will set yourself up for a painful experience. Because Windows Terminal (most likely) doesn't have the editing capabilities of Emacs, and (most likely) it doesn't use the same navigation / editing scheme as Emacs, you will have to switch between the two and make mistakes in both of them. It's really annoying to work like that, and it causes people who chose Vi or Emacs to use or to configure other tools to work in the same way their preferred text editor does it. But, ideally, they'd just want the other tools to be embedded in their editor (because any customizations they make for the editor will automatically extend to those tools). Having to deal with switches in how you write or navigate text is similar to having a crying baby nearby or a loud pub etc. Most people wouldn't willingly put themselves in that position.

jorams 3y ago

> You are meant to press Ctrl with your right hand when you press C-x. I've been using Emacs for several years now, and I think the real solution is to turn Caps Lock into another Ctrl. The right Ctrl key is in a very uncomfortable position whether I press it with my pinky or with the base of my hand, so in practice I basically never use it. The left Ctrl key is not as bad, but it's still not comfortable if I need to press it often. Caps Lock, however, only requires a slight adjustment of my left pinky finger to press. Simultaneously pressing x with my left ring finger is slightly weird, but not uncomfortable. There are some other keys on the left side that don't really comfortably combine with left Ctrl or Caps Lock, but I don't run into them often enough for it to be a problem.

crabbone 3y ago
I use Kinesis Advantage 2, and have been doing so for about 10 years now. So it's hard for me to relate. But, in a rare event that I need to use a more conventional keyboard, I press right Ctrl with my thumb. In the beginning of my exposure to Emacs I did rebind CapsLock, but that offered little relief. The true quality of life improvement comes from not pressing Ctrl+<anything> with the same hand. Anything that requires Meta or Ctrl -- automatically use both hands.
dmm 3y ago
> The right Ctrl key is in a very uncomfortable position whether I press it with my pinky or with the base of my hand When I used a traditional keyboard I rebound ctrl to be next to space so I could easily hit it with my thumb so the layout was like: [super][alt][ctrl][----space----][ctrl][alt][super] But now I use a split keyboard(Kinesis Advantage) with ctrl/alt/super in thumb clusters that make hitting those modifiers really easy.
- reddit_clone 3y ago
  Yep. I do that same key remapping too. IIRC original suggestion was from Xah Lee

xenophonf 3y ago

> You are meant to press Ctrl with your right hand when you press C-x. Nothing's stopping you from doing it that way, but since Steele and Moon started writing EMACS in 1976 on the PDP-6 and the PDP-10 and probably used VT52 terminals to access those systems, you're probably expected to have a control key on the home row to the left of the caps lock. The VT52 does not have a control key on the right side of the keyboard. I've found that Emacs's ergonomics are greatly improved by swapping the caps lock and left control keys on modern, IBM Model M-inspired keyboard layouts.

crabbone 3y ago
I believe this was / is still believed to be the "best historical keyboard" to be used with Emacs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard#/media/File:Space-cadet.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard#/media/Fi... it has Ctrl on both sides. Even if the 76's Emacs wasn't designed for it, most people with decades of Emacs experience would start salivating just from looking at this keyboard. I believe, that when anyone using Emacs is designing key bindings, be it today, ten or twenty years ago -- they think about something like Space Cadet.