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Opium didn't do much good to China. Opioids aren't doing much goods to the US. An individual's freedoms can lead to macro phenomenons that negatively impact eve

Opium didn't do much good to China. Opioids aren't doing much goods to the US. An individual's freedoms can lead to macro phenomenons that negatively impact everyone's freedoms and outcomes. Individualism shouldn't be the only lens we look through when considering these problems. I think debilitating substances that are potentially addictive and don't have social acclimatation (unlike alcohol) are a very high risk. I don't think they should be banned outright if they have useful properties, but I don't think they should just be allowed in society without proper care. Just looking at it from a "I do what I want to my adult body" completely ignores the condition some of these adults will find themselves in, and the risk they will impose on others as a result. And it also completely ignores how we are all interdependent on each other in a modern economy. We all require a village of people to function and thrive and defend our rights. Something that potentially harms a large percentage of this village will also harm those in the village who don't partake. And then when your village is helpless, a belligerent neighbouring one comes knocking. Maybe you think that's an exaggeration, but it's literally what brought down China in the 1800s. It turned from one of the oldest and most grandiose powers on earth into an incapacitated corpse pillaged by western powers. So you know, being careful with these substances seems just a bit prudent.

datadeft 3y ago
Ok, lets not unban heroin. Can we get DMT, THC, MDMA, Psilocybin, LSD unbanned though? There is a good reason why I am asking these. I would say anything under nicotine / alcohol line should be legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependence-small.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependenc...
otherme123 3y ago
Last time I checked, opioids were illegal in the US. Why are you talking like opiates are legal, so the current situation is evidence that legalization is bad? If anything, the current situation with opiates in the US shows ilegalization is not doing much good to the US. Also, the situation in China (if you are talking about the Opium Wars) are not that straight forward "legal opium bad". In fact, opium was legally consumed for centuries all around the globe. China emperors worried about "opium addiction is bad" so they illegalized it multiple times in 1729, 1799, 1814 and 1831. Opium wars started in 1839, but opium smuggling into China due to the prohibition was already rampant since 1729. It will be like saying that all the problems that arised around the Alcohol Prohibition was actually caused by alcohol and absolutely not caused by the prohibition. It looks that drug problems are always linked and worsened to some form of prohibition than to drug usage itself, but somehow it is the only logical and obvious solution to drug problems. Alcohol is worse than heroin (and by definition, way worse than opium) in almost every study (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects). Actually, "harm to others" category (i.e. affects society) is specially bad in alcohol. "Social acclimatation" is not a property of alcohol, any substance can be socially accepted (look at these cocaine ads in the 70's https://www.higherperspectives.com/these-cocaine-ads-from-the-1970s-show-how-much-our-world-has-changed-1429983023.html https://www.higherperspectives.com/these-cocaine-ads-from-th...), even opium or heroin.
mptest 3y ago
The fact that you think individualism is the only lens I'm looking at things with here shows you didn't read my comment in good faith. Of course bad stuff happens with free access to any drug if you're above 25 with daily limits. Addicts happen. The question I have for you is, is anything addicts do to themselves society whomever, worse than what drug cartels do to it? Fuck. No. I'd rather have addicts than international drug cartels with hundreds of billions of $, any day of the week. Not to mention we have tons of addicts NOW. The war on drugs does not solve addicts. You know what does? Treatment/rehab centers funded by taxes. If only there was some way we could fund them tho.... Crazy to me you lot just ignore the damage the war on drugs does "bc addicts bro". As if we don't have addicts now. So idiotic.

datadeft 3y ago

Ok, lets not unban heroin. Can we get DMT, THC, MDMA, Psilocybin, LSD unbanned though? There is a good reason why I am asking these. I would say anything under nicotine / alcohol line should be legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependence-small.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drug_danger_and_dependenc...

otherme123 3y ago

Last time I checked, opioids were illegal in the US. Why are you talking like opiates are legal, so the current situation is evidence that legalization is bad? If anything, the current situation with opiates in the US shows ilegalization is not doing much good to the US. Also, the situation in China (if you are talking about the Opium Wars) are not that straight forward "legal opium bad". In fact, opium was legally consumed for centuries all around the globe. China emperors worried about "opium addiction is bad" so they illegalized it multiple times in 1729, 1799, 1814 and 1831. Opium wars started in 1839, but opium smuggling into China due to the prohibition was already rampant since 1729. It will be like saying that all the problems that arised around the Alcohol Prohibition was actually caused by alcohol and absolutely not caused by the prohibition. It looks that drug problems are always linked and worsened to some form of prohibition than to drug usage itself, but somehow it is the only logical and obvious solution to drug problems. Alcohol is worse than heroin (and by definition, way worse than opium) in almost every study (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects). Actually, "harm to others" category (i.e. affects society) is specially bad in alcohol. "Social acclimatation" is not a property of alcohol, any substance can be socially accepted (look at these cocaine ads in the 70's https://www.higherperspectives.com/these-cocaine-ads-from-the-1970s-show-how-much-our-world-has-changed-1429983023.html https://www.higherperspectives.com/these-cocaine-ads-from-th...), even opium or heroin.

mptest 3y ago

The fact that you think individualism is the only lens I'm looking at things with here shows you didn't read my comment in good faith. Of course bad stuff happens with free access to any drug if you're above 25 with daily limits. Addicts happen. The question I have for you is, is anything addicts do to themselves society whomever, worse than what drug cartels do to it? Fuck. No. I'd rather have addicts than international drug cartels with hundreds of billions of $, any day of the week. Not to mention we have tons of addicts NOW. The war on drugs does not solve addicts. You know what does? Treatment/rehab centers funded by taxes. If only there was some way we could fund them tho.... Crazy to me you lot just ignore the damage the war on drugs does "bc addicts bro". As if we don't have addicts now. So idiotic.