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I think it's relevant to point out that even Amsterdam eventually chose to ban magic mushrooms, though less potent magic truffles remain legal. This happened af

I think it's relevant to point out that even Amsterdam eventually chose to ban magic mushrooms, though less potent magic truffles remain legal. This happened after a rapidly increasing number of incidents of people having psychotic episodes while tripping and injuring or killing themselves, usually while trying to fly. I don't really see how legalization could work, let alone in an area with extremely high numbers of people with mental illness. Shrooms + mental illness go together like ammonia and bleach. And how many 'flying deaths', particularly of otherwise healthy young people, will society accept before backtracking? One can already easily envision the commercials for the inevitable proposition over it.

_a_a_a_ 3y ago
[flagged]
ShellfishMeme 3y ago
Is there any proof that people trying to fly and jumping off a building is actually real? I always assumed it's some sort of anti drug meme that had been around since forever.
- Fezzik 3y ago
  That does seem… odd. I’ve been enjoying mushrooms multiple times a year for 22 years. I’ve been around a lot of other people doing mushrooms. On fire lookouts. Rooftops. High in the mountains of Oregon, Washington, and Colorado. And I have never, ever seen anybody try to fly.
  - abletonlive 3y ago
    You haven't been around enough people doing psychedelics then. Psychotic breaks are not uncommon. Once you're at a music festival where n=thousands you realize this. Flying and drowning in lakes is not unheard of. Everybody thinks they are immune to psychotic breaks until they do enough psychedelics and have one. This could be you some day.
    - saberience 3y ago
      You haven't been around enough people drinking booze then. Psychotic breaks are not uncommon. Once you're basically anwywhere with people drinking you realize this. Flying and drowning in lakes, murdering your wife, or dying in a fiery crash on the freeway are not unheard of. Everybody thinks they are immune to psychotic breaks until they do enough booze and have one. This could be you some day.
      - abletonlive 3y ago
        I'm not sure why you're responding in this manner. I never said alcohol was any better. I was addressing a comment that they were surprised psychotic breaks and deaths happen on psychedelics. This has nothing to do with alcohol. Seems quite petty of a response.
        decremental 3y ago
        [dead]
        krisoft 3y ago
        > I was addressing a comment that they were surprised psychotic breaks and deaths happen on psychedelics. They were specificaly asking about people wanting to fly. “And I have never, ever seen anybody try to fly.” was the direct quote. Doesn’t say anything about psychotic breaks or deaths.
      - AllegedAlec 3y ago
        \>thing A is bad, but so is thing B, so we can't criminalize thing A Better decriminalize murder in that case.
        saberience 3y ago
        Honest question: How many people do you think avoid murdering others because there is a law against it? Or another way of putting it, do you think that the reason more people don't go around murdering others is because the government wrote down somewhere "this is illegal"?
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  If you Google around it seems like there's plenty of anecdotal cases of it happening, although some of them are a bit tabloidy and sensationalized, and some of the people had multiple substances going on https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bali-death-ong-chee-seng-balcony-fall-magic-mushrooms-a7726451.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bali-death-ong... https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/death-leap-man-ate-magic-1066483 https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manches... https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-jumped-from-balcony-after-taking-magic-mushrooms-1.788205 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-jumped-from-balcony-afte...
- orangepurple 3y ago
  My friend experienced a situation where she took something 10 years ago that was speedy and trippy that was sold as LSD but was clearly NOT and there was definitely a feeling of invulnerability to damage at altitude and a heightened perception of strength.
  - greyface- 3y ago
    If it weren't illegal, we'd have better supply chain transparency, and your friend would have been less likely to have been sold a dangerously mislabeled substance.
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  I remember that as a meme of sorts in the late 1960's. And there is a film with a scene where a hippie tries to fly out a window. This is the scene, no idea what movie though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G29gdfcsgio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G29gdfcsgio
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  It's real, but highly uncommon (that is, every incident will be in the news); compare that to e.g. instances of drunken rages, alcohol poisoning, Korsakoff and drunk drivers which... is still reported on, but a lot of it goes by silently.
supercheetah 3y ago
This isn't legalization. It's just decriminalization. There's a big difference. People can still be fined for their use if there isn't a medical reason, but they won't go to jail or prison.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
todd3834 3y ago
I’ve been around a lot of people on mushrooms. I will say that the experiences I’ve observed never made anyone think they could fly off a building. Maybe they were just lucky or the shrooms were always weak. However, I have very real concerns about the effects on those who might have dormant mental illness. I have no proof but the idea that many kinds of drugs could amplify or accelerate a mental illness scares me in a mass consumption setting. If there is no evidence for this then I’d like to know. If there is evidence for this then we need to really make it clear and educate people of the risk.
- Gud 3y ago
  I suspect we will never really know until mass consumption becomes legal. There is so much FUD regarding drugs the truth is hard to tell. My 2 cents, out of all the psychedelics, Mescaline seem to be the most gentle on the human psyche.
  - tudorw 3y ago
    Let's make it clear, if by gentle you mean an intense 18 hour journey in a mind roller coaster you cannot control or stop, then yes, that's what a friend told me.
    - Gud 3y ago
      It depends on the dosage. Start by slowly taking incremental 50mg steps, once a month. Less if you have a low body weight . But less is more. Mescaline is very potent. It’s not something you want to be doing too much of anyway, it’s exhausting.
  - bsimpson 3y ago
    Incidentally mescaline tends to be one of the exceptions from the "legalize all plant medicine" crowd. Apparently it's a lot of effort to cultivate peyote; there isn't much of it, and it's associated with tribal practices. People advocating for legalization tend to leave out peyote because they don't want people competing with tribal shaman for access to it. I believe there's another source (S. Pedro cactus?) that doesn't have the tribal history, and is thus considered a reasonable alternative for legalization.
datadeft 3y ago
> number of incidents of people having psychotic episodes while tripping and injuring or killing themselves, usually while trying to fly 1 person died and she was 17 so could not legally purchase mushrooms. > Sale to minors is prohibited, and an information leaflet should be given with the mushrooms (apparently, the French girl had not bought the mushrooms herself, but older friends). I think we live in era when driving a car and dying is ok while taking mushrooms and dying is not ok. The first has one or two orders of magnitude more deaths than the second case.
- nec4b 3y ago
  I guess you don't drive to work if you somehow equate driving (something necessary to live) with taking mushrooms (unnecessary and risky pleasure)?
  - davidandgoliath 3y ago
    Driving is very optional. Guns are very optional. We have both, so, we should also consider responsible adults worthy of choosing to use/not use substances.
    - nec4b 3y ago
      Maybe for you driving is optional, though I wander how food gets to your store, but for a large number of people is a necessity.
      - datadeft 3y ago
        Can I also claim that taking LSD is a necessity for me to have my well being? Who decides what is a necessity and what is not? I would say that the harm rate could be a good indicator what a society should tolerate and anything that is less harmful what is tolerated should be legal.
  - datadeft 3y ago
    I do sometimes, but more often I take public transportation or wfh.
caskstrength 3y ago
> And how many 'flying deaths', particularly of otherwise healthy young people, will society accept before backtracking? But it is fine to put those "otherwise healthy young people" to prison for having a pack of shrooms in their pocket, amiright? And when they are out (probably not as healthy or as young anymore) let's ruin their lives further by preventing them for ever getting any reasonable job for having a criminal record...
pmoriarty 3y ago
"Even Amsterdam"? The Netherlands have been under the control of a conservative government for a long time now, and countless coffeshops have been forced to close under their rule. Banning magic mushrooms is just par for the course. The Netherlands used to have a well-deserved reputation for tolerance, but that's been wearing away for decades now, with intolerance for everything from Muslim immigrants to drug users. I say this with a heavy heart, as someone who absolutely loves the Netherlands for everything else it has to offer, and who used to be in awe of how tolerant and accepting they were. There was a day when the Netherlands could be justly proud of leading the world in tolerance, but that time is over.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Can’t blame a conservative government. Their society tried something different and they found the approach lacking.
  - pmoriarty 3y ago
    The conservative government is a reflection of what the Dutch people want. They just aren't as tolerant as a society as they used to be.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      Exactly, government is a symptom of society.

_a_a_a_ 3y ago

[flagged]

ShellfishMeme 3y ago

Is there any proof that people trying to fly and jumping off a building is actually real? I always assumed it's some sort of anti drug meme that had been around since forever.

Fezzik 3y ago
That does seem… odd. I’ve been enjoying mushrooms multiple times a year for 22 years. I’ve been around a lot of other people doing mushrooms. On fire lookouts. Rooftops. High in the mountains of Oregon, Washington, and Colorado. And I have never, ever seen anybody try to fly.
- abletonlive 3y ago
  You haven't been around enough people doing psychedelics then. Psychotic breaks are not uncommon. Once you're at a music festival where n=thousands you realize this. Flying and drowning in lakes is not unheard of. Everybody thinks they are immune to psychotic breaks until they do enough psychedelics and have one. This could be you some day.
  - saberience 3y ago
    You haven't been around enough people drinking booze then. Psychotic breaks are not uncommon. Once you're basically anwywhere with people drinking you realize this. Flying and drowning in lakes, murdering your wife, or dying in a fiery crash on the freeway are not unheard of. Everybody thinks they are immune to psychotic breaks until they do enough booze and have one. This could be you some day.
    - abletonlive 3y ago
      I'm not sure why you're responding in this manner. I never said alcohol was any better. I was addressing a comment that they were surprised psychotic breaks and deaths happen on psychedelics. This has nothing to do with alcohol. Seems quite petty of a response.
      - decremental 3y ago
        [dead]
      - krisoft 3y ago
        > I was addressing a comment that they were surprised psychotic breaks and deaths happen on psychedelics. They were specificaly asking about people wanting to fly. “And I have never, ever seen anybody try to fly.” was the direct quote. Doesn’t say anything about psychotic breaks or deaths.
    - AllegedAlec 3y ago
      \>thing A is bad, but so is thing B, so we can't criminalize thing A Better decriminalize murder in that case.
      - saberience 3y ago
        Honest question: How many people do you think avoid murdering others because there is a law against it? Or another way of putting it, do you think that the reason more people don't go around murdering others is because the government wrote down somewhere "this is illegal"?
Rebelgecko 3y ago
If you Google around it seems like there's plenty of anecdotal cases of it happening, although some of them are a bit tabloidy and sensationalized, and some of the people had multiple substances going on https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bali-death-ong-chee-seng-balcony-fall-magic-mushrooms-a7726451.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bali-death-ong... https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/death-leap-man-ate-magic-1066483 https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manches... https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-jumped-from-balcony-after-taking-magic-mushrooms-1.788205 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-jumped-from-balcony-afte...
orangepurple 3y ago
My friend experienced a situation where she took something 10 years ago that was speedy and trippy that was sold as LSD but was clearly NOT and there was definitely a feeling of invulnerability to damage at altitude and a heightened perception of strength.
- greyface- 3y ago
  If it weren't illegal, we'd have better supply chain transparency, and your friend would have been less likely to have been sold a dangerously mislabeled substance.
Gibbon1 3y ago
I remember that as a meme of sorts in the late 1960's. And there is a film with a scene where a hippie tries to fly out a window. This is the scene, no idea what movie though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G29gdfcsgio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G29gdfcsgio
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
It's real, but highly uncommon (that is, every incident will be in the news); compare that to e.g. instances of drunken rages, alcohol poisoning, Korsakoff and drunk drivers which... is still reported on, but a lot of it goes by silently.

supercheetah 3y ago

This isn't legalization. It's just decriminalization. There's a big difference. People can still be fined for their use if there isn't a medical reason, but they won't go to jail or prison.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

todd3834 3y ago

I’ve been around a lot of people on mushrooms. I will say that the experiences I’ve observed never made anyone think they could fly off a building. Maybe they were just lucky or the shrooms were always weak. However, I have very real concerns about the effects on those who might have dormant mental illness. I have no proof but the idea that many kinds of drugs could amplify or accelerate a mental illness scares me in a mass consumption setting. If there is no evidence for this then I’d like to know. If there is evidence for this then we need to really make it clear and educate people of the risk.

Gud 3y ago
I suspect we will never really know until mass consumption becomes legal. There is so much FUD regarding drugs the truth is hard to tell. My 2 cents, out of all the psychedelics, Mescaline seem to be the most gentle on the human psyche.
- tudorw 3y ago
  Let's make it clear, if by gentle you mean an intense 18 hour journey in a mind roller coaster you cannot control or stop, then yes, that's what a friend told me.
  - Gud 3y ago
    It depends on the dosage. Start by slowly taking incremental 50mg steps, once a month. Less if you have a low body weight . But less is more. Mescaline is very potent. It’s not something you want to be doing too much of anyway, it’s exhausting.
- bsimpson 3y ago
  Incidentally mescaline tends to be one of the exceptions from the "legalize all plant medicine" crowd. Apparently it's a lot of effort to cultivate peyote; there isn't much of it, and it's associated with tribal practices. People advocating for legalization tend to leave out peyote because they don't want people competing with tribal shaman for access to it. I believe there's another source (S. Pedro cactus?) that doesn't have the tribal history, and is thus considered a reasonable alternative for legalization.

datadeft 3y ago

> number of incidents of people having psychotic episodes while tripping and injuring or killing themselves, usually while trying to fly 1 person died and she was 17 so could not legally purchase mushrooms. > Sale to minors is prohibited, and an information leaflet should be given with the mushrooms (apparently, the French girl had not bought the mushrooms herself, but older friends). I think we live in era when driving a car and dying is ok while taking mushrooms and dying is not ok. The first has one or two orders of magnitude more deaths than the second case.

nec4b 3y ago
I guess you don't drive to work if you somehow equate driving (something necessary to live) with taking mushrooms (unnecessary and risky pleasure)?
- davidandgoliath 3y ago
  Driving is very optional. Guns are very optional. We have both, so, we should also consider responsible adults worthy of choosing to use/not use substances.
  - nec4b 3y ago
    Maybe for you driving is optional, though I wander how food gets to your store, but for a large number of people is a necessity.
    - datadeft 3y ago
      Can I also claim that taking LSD is a necessity for me to have my well being? Who decides what is a necessity and what is not? I would say that the harm rate could be a good indicator what a society should tolerate and anything that is less harmful what is tolerated should be legal.
- datadeft 3y ago
  I do sometimes, but more often I take public transportation or wfh.

caskstrength 3y ago

> And how many 'flying deaths', particularly of otherwise healthy young people, will society accept before backtracking? But it is fine to put those "otherwise healthy young people" to prison for having a pack of shrooms in their pocket, amiright? And when they are out (probably not as healthy or as young anymore) let's ruin their lives further by preventing them for ever getting any reasonable job for having a criminal record...

pmoriarty 3y ago

"Even Amsterdam"? The Netherlands have been under the control of a conservative government for a long time now, and countless coffeshops have been forced to close under their rule. Banning magic mushrooms is just par for the course. The Netherlands used to have a well-deserved reputation for tolerance, but that's been wearing away for decades now, with intolerance for everything from Muslim immigrants to drug users. I say this with a heavy heart, as someone who absolutely loves the Netherlands for everything else it has to offer, and who used to be in awe of how tolerant and accepting they were. There was a day when the Netherlands could be justly proud of leading the world in tolerance, but that time is over.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Can’t blame a conservative government. Their society tried something different and they found the approach lacking.
- pmoriarty 3y ago
  The conservative government is a reflection of what the Dutch people want. They just aren't as tolerant as a society as they used to be.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    Exactly, government is a symptom of society.