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the bitcoin mines stimulated power infrastructure investment so that texas was able to withstand the heat wave without doing blackouts

by ftxbro 3y ago

logN_2 3y ago
If true, I did not know that. You have a source on that?
- anonym29 3y ago
  I'm not the person you're replying to, but I do have a source that talks about how BTC mining in Texas helps normalize and "smooth" usage. Electricity is complicated so this is a broad and major oversimplification, but: 1. It's bad™ for a grid to be producing more electricity than it's using, or vice versa 2. TX has a highly variable grid load, in part due to Very Hot Weather™ compared to much of the rest of the country 3. TX, perhaps unintuitively, is [one of the largest? maybe the largest?] (haven't checked in a while) producers of solar and wind energy, but these sources are highly variable compared to fossil fuels, hydro, nuclear, etc. 4. Importantly, peak production and peak demand in TX are VERY mismatched 5. It's hard™ to store excess energy from times of peak production to use in times of peak demand 6. BTC mining, in the right places at the right times, help smooth the imbalances resulting from point 4, which are bad™ as mentioned in point 1, avoiding the hard™ problem of storage from point 5 The net result of all of this is that the "smoothing" effect of BTC mining (in the right places, at the right times) makes it more economically viable to change the makeup of energy production to favor a larger share of renewables and a smaller share of fossil fuels. This isn't exactly the same as what the original commenter you're replying to is saying, but it's progress towards decarbonization of the grid nevertheless. Source: https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/24/how-texas-became-a-global-mecca-for-bitcoin-mining/ https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/24/how-t... For the people downvoting, could you please share why? If I'm doing a poor job of explaining/communicating anything, I'd appreciate being informed about what part in particular, so I can try to do better.
  - mikeryan 3y ago
    The problem with your argument and the point of the article is #6 Selling excess energy to bitcoin miners is fine. Having to pay them off when the grid is overloaded because they can’t turn their damn servers off for a week is what smells like the rest of the crypto bullshit.
    - brutusborn 3y ago
      The reason they are one of the first to turn off is _because_ they can turn their servers off easily. This is why crypto mining is perfect for this application. Some industrial processes take days or weeks to fully shutdown / startup so quick shutdown isn't practical. If your business was shutdown for the greater good, would you not expect some compensation?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - anonym29 3y ago
      > Having to pay them off when the grid is overloaded because they can’t turn their damn servers off for a week is what smells like the rest of the crypto bullshit. There seems to be a misconception here. The miners are being paid rebates to do precisely that - turning off their servers. They're being given credits to not use electricity at times when demand is high and renewable supply is low. This is part of what allows the renewable energy to make up a larger share of Texas' energy production in an economical way. Without the ability to rapidly raise ("Quick, turn the bitcoin miners on!") and lower ("Quick, turn the bitcoin miners off!") energy demand in this manner, there is a lesser need for variable production (solar and wind) and a greater need for "constant" production (oil, gas, nuclear). Note that these types of production can be turned on and off the same way bitcoin miners can, but doing so is much slower and is actually so costly that it's cheaper to decrease the share of energy produced by "constant" production sources, increase the share of energy produced by variable renewables, and simply pay the bitcoin miners to turn their racks and racks of SHA-256 ASICs on and off at precisely the right times and places. It's WAY easier, cheaper, faster, and safer to make adjustments to the "demand" side than it is to make adjustments on the "supply" side. I know it sounds really counterintuitive and complicated but this really is better for the environment - it leads to less burning of fossil fuels and lower costs for taxpayers than the alternative of not having any bitcoin miners in Texas. Please give that article I linked a read if you have the time, that goes into much more depth about all of this.
mikeryan 3y ago
Maybe… Just maybe… It was people dying during the extreme heat and cold that overwhelmed the Texas energy grid that stimulated any power infrastructure development? …nah
corethree 3y ago
In green energy or turbines to burn oil? Ironically this stimulus contributes to more heat waves. It's a bandaid ultimately covering up the root of the problem: Energy generation for zero utility.
pyinstallwoes 3y ago
How is that even logical?
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Weird if true. Weird that Texas invested in the power infrastructure for Bitcoin mining rather than for the people that relied on that for their homes.

the bitcoin mines stimulated power infrastructure investment so that texas was able to withstand the heat wave without doing blackouts

by ftxbro 3y ago

the bitcoin mines stimulated power infrastructure investment so that texas was able to withstand the heat wave without doing blackouts

logN_2 3y ago

If true, I did not know that. You have a source on that?

anonym29 3y ago
I'm not the person you're replying to, but I do have a source that talks about how BTC mining in Texas helps normalize and "smooth" usage. Electricity is complicated so this is a broad and major oversimplification, but: 1. It's bad™ for a grid to be producing more electricity than it's using, or vice versa 2. TX has a highly variable grid load, in part due to Very Hot Weather™ compared to much of the rest of the country 3. TX, perhaps unintuitively, is [one of the largest? maybe the largest?] (haven't checked in a while) producers of solar and wind energy, but these sources are highly variable compared to fossil fuels, hydro, nuclear, etc. 4. Importantly, peak production and peak demand in TX are VERY mismatched 5. It's hard™ to store excess energy from times of peak production to use in times of peak demand 6. BTC mining, in the right places at the right times, help smooth the imbalances resulting from point 4, which are bad™ as mentioned in point 1, avoiding the hard™ problem of storage from point 5 The net result of all of this is that the "smoothing" effect of BTC mining (in the right places, at the right times) makes it more economically viable to change the makeup of energy production to favor a larger share of renewables and a smaller share of fossil fuels. This isn't exactly the same as what the original commenter you're replying to is saying, but it's progress towards decarbonization of the grid nevertheless. Source: https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/24/how-texas-became-a-global-mecca-for-bitcoin-mining/ https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/24/how-t... For the people downvoting, could you please share why? If I'm doing a poor job of explaining/communicating anything, I'd appreciate being informed about what part in particular, so I can try to do better.
- mikeryan 3y ago
  The problem with your argument and the point of the article is #6 Selling excess energy to bitcoin miners is fine. Having to pay them off when the grid is overloaded because they can’t turn their damn servers off for a week is what smells like the rest of the crypto bullshit.
  - brutusborn 3y ago
    The reason they are one of the first to turn off is _because_ they can turn their servers off easily. This is why crypto mining is perfect for this application. Some industrial processes take days or weeks to fully shutdown / startup so quick shutdown isn't practical. If your business was shutdown for the greater good, would you not expect some compensation?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - anonym29 3y ago
    > Having to pay them off when the grid is overloaded because they can’t turn their damn servers off for a week is what smells like the rest of the crypto bullshit. There seems to be a misconception here. The miners are being paid rebates to do precisely that - turning off their servers. They're being given credits to not use electricity at times when demand is high and renewable supply is low. This is part of what allows the renewable energy to make up a larger share of Texas' energy production in an economical way. Without the ability to rapidly raise ("Quick, turn the bitcoin miners on!") and lower ("Quick, turn the bitcoin miners off!") energy demand in this manner, there is a lesser need for variable production (solar and wind) and a greater need for "constant" production (oil, gas, nuclear). Note that these types of production can be turned on and off the same way bitcoin miners can, but doing so is much slower and is actually so costly that it's cheaper to decrease the share of energy produced by "constant" production sources, increase the share of energy produced by variable renewables, and simply pay the bitcoin miners to turn their racks and racks of SHA-256 ASICs on and off at precisely the right times and places. It's WAY easier, cheaper, faster, and safer to make adjustments to the "demand" side than it is to make adjustments on the "supply" side. I know it sounds really counterintuitive and complicated but this really is better for the environment - it leads to less burning of fossil fuels and lower costs for taxpayers than the alternative of not having any bitcoin miners in Texas. Please give that article I linked a read if you have the time, that goes into much more depth about all of this.

mikeryan 3y ago

Maybe… Just maybe… It was people dying during the extreme heat and cold that overwhelmed the Texas energy grid that stimulated any power infrastructure development? …nah

corethree 3y ago

In green energy or turbines to burn oil? Ironically this stimulus contributes to more heat waves. It's a bandaid ultimately covering up the root of the problem: Energy generation for zero utility.

pyinstallwoes 3y ago

How is that even logical?

JKCalhoun 3y ago

Weird if true. Weird that Texas invested in the power infrastructure for Bitcoin mining rather than for the people that relied on that for their homes.