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That fact that Apple blended iMessages, SMS text messages, and email into an extremely confusing mess may also be the reason for so many security issues related

That fact that Apple blended iMessages, SMS text messages, and email into an extremely confusing mess may also be the reason for so many security issues related to iMessage. Perhaps not directly responsible for this particular NGO exploit, but I find iMessage's logic and behavior bewildering at times. For example: If you stop using WhatsApp for example, nothing bad happens if you try to send messages another way. But if you stop using iMessage, then you can no longer send a normal SMS to someone with whom you've communicated before using iMessage. The Messages app will tell you, "You must enable iMessage to send this message", even if it's an SMS text message to a normal phone number! Why shouldn't that work? To be able to again send SMS text messages to someone you used to talk with is to disable iMessage of course, then sign out of Facetime (who could imagine that as a necessary step?), sign out of iCloud, reboot the iPhone, and wait some minutes to hours to days until you are "deregistered" from iMessage. I'm talking about the same phone with the same SIM chip. The problem can become much worse if you've switched phones or SIM card. The source code for iMessage must be a nightmare having integrated SMS and email and a new messaging system all together.

zuhsetaqi 3y ago
> For example: If you stop using WhatsApp for example, nothing bad happens if you try to send messages another way. But if you stop using iMessage, then you can no longer send a normal SMS to someone with whom you've communicated before using iMessage. The Messages app will tell you, "You must enable iMessage to send this message", even if it's an SMS text message to a normal phone number! Why shouldn't that work? To be able to again send SMS text messages to someone you used to talk with is to disable iMessage of course, then sign out of Facetime (who could imagine that as a necessary step?), sign out of iCloud, reboot the iPhone, and wait some minutes to hours to days until you are "deregistered" from iMessage. I'm talking about the same phone with the same SIM chip. The problem can become much worse if you've switched phones or SIM card. That’s simply not true. I just turned off iMessage and instantly switched to the Message app and sent a SMS to someone I have a iMessage chat with and it worked without any problems
jupp0r 3y ago
There is no email (the protocol) in iMessage (the app). You can use somebody's email address as the recipient for an iMessage (the protocol). No email is ever sent.
- mattnewton 3y ago
  You can type in a contact with an email address by just their name and send an email from iMessage. I have done it to contacts accidentally many times.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    I think sending SMS to emails and receiving SMS from emails is a functionality of the mobile network. You should be able to do that in any app that can send/receive SMS. https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1061254/ https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1061254/
    - kn0where 3y ago
      The point is that those other apps don’t use email addresses as the handle to contact someone. If someone iMessages you, the iMessage might (appear to) come from their phone number, or it could (appear to) come from their email. If you have an iMessage contact that’s just an email and you iMessage them, it works fine. If you try to then add Android users to your group chat, everyone gets SMS and the iMessage user with an email handle gets an empty body email from AT&T with an attachment containing the SMS as a plaintext file. And then this user gets another empty email for every reply to that group text.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        Oh, I have never come across that because I have avoided MMS like the plague ever since WhatsApp/Signal/any other cross platform messaging option with media capability became available.
      - stephenr 3y ago
airtonix 3y ago
[dead]
fblp 3y ago
For a new iPhone user are there alternatives to using iMessage for texts to avoid this?
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  You can disable iMessage and the Messages app will then just send SMS. Or you can install Signal or WhatsApp or whatever
  - jesseendahl 3y ago
    Don’t use SMS instead of iMessage though. Then all your texts will be sent across the network without any kind of decent encryption. And WhatsApp is almost unusable unless you consent to uploading all your contacts to Facebook. (IIRC this was the red line that got crossed that caused the WhatsApp founder to quit FB post-acquisition.) Signal is a good recommendation, but you won’t be able to convince 100% of people you need to interact with over text to use Signal. You might convince friends and family, but not acquaintances or random people who might need to text with (like your electrician etc.) Given the tradeoffs, iMessage is pretty good for day-to-day messaging.
    - _cenw 3y ago
      It's a tradeoff. Do you want messages from strangers to run through a bunch of parsers that historically had problems, or do you want to take advantage of your peer group using iMessage. I'm outside the US, so I don't even need to consider. Nobody here uses iMessage, even the people with iPhones.
    - emsixteen 3y ago
      > And WhatsApp is almost unusable unless you consent to uploading all your contacts to Facebook. What? How-so? I've never allowed it to do that and it works fine for me, across iOS/Mac/Windows.
      - regecks 3y ago
        It works but it shows phone numbers rather than contact names and you can’t assign a name to a number without giving access to your entire contacts … it ticks me off.
raverbashing 3y ago
"but but my precious text bubble colors!!1" Yeah, it seems iMessage in iPhone is like IE in Windows, a needlessly ingrained mess for market segmentation purposes
the_third_wave 3y ago
That is because iMessage has the same function as the night men in the Eagles song Hotel California: "Relax,” said the night man, “We are programmed to receive You can check out any time you like but you can never leave" Somehow fittingly that song is about the excesses of American culture ... also about the uneasy balance between art and commerce [1] according to one of its authors, Don Henley while also having been interpreted as being all about American decadence and burnout, too much money, corruption, drugs and arrogance; too little humility and heart and a metaphor for hedonism, self-destruction, and greed .... [1] https://www.smoothradio.com/features/the-story-of/eagles-hotel-california-lyrics-meaning-facts/ https://www.smoothradio.com/features/the-story-of/eagles-hot...

zuhsetaqi 3y ago

> For example: If you stop using WhatsApp for example, nothing bad happens if you try to send messages another way. But if you stop using iMessage, then you can no longer send a normal SMS to someone with whom you've communicated before using iMessage. The Messages app will tell you, "You must enable iMessage to send this message", even if it's an SMS text message to a normal phone number! Why shouldn't that work? To be able to again send SMS text messages to someone you used to talk with is to disable iMessage of course, then sign out of Facetime (who could imagine that as a necessary step?), sign out of iCloud, reboot the iPhone, and wait some minutes to hours to days until you are "deregistered" from iMessage. I'm talking about the same phone with the same SIM chip. The problem can become much worse if you've switched phones or SIM card. That’s simply not true. I just turned off iMessage and instantly switched to the Message app and sent a SMS to someone I have a iMessage chat with and it worked without any problems

jupp0r 3y ago

There is no email (the protocol) in iMessage (the app). You can use somebody's email address as the recipient for an iMessage (the protocol). No email is ever sent.

mattnewton 3y ago
You can type in a contact with an email address by just their name and send an email from iMessage. I have done it to contacts accidentally many times.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  I think sending SMS to emails and receiving SMS from emails is a functionality of the mobile network. You should be able to do that in any app that can send/receive SMS. https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1061254/ https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1061254/
  - kn0where 3y ago
    The point is that those other apps don’t use email addresses as the handle to contact someone. If someone iMessages you, the iMessage might (appear to) come from their phone number, or it could (appear to) come from their email. If you have an iMessage contact that’s just an email and you iMessage them, it works fine. If you try to then add Android users to your group chat, everyone gets SMS and the iMessage user with an email handle gets an empty body email from AT&T with an attachment containing the SMS as a plaintext file. And then this user gets another empty email for every reply to that group text.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Oh, I have never come across that because I have avoided MMS like the plague ever since WhatsApp/Signal/any other cross platform messaging option with media capability became available.
    - stephenr 3y ago

airtonix 3y ago

[dead]

fblp 3y ago

For a new iPhone user are there alternatives to using iMessage for texts to avoid this?

IggleSniggle 3y ago
You can disable iMessage and the Messages app will then just send SMS. Or you can install Signal or WhatsApp or whatever
- jesseendahl 3y ago
  Don’t use SMS instead of iMessage though. Then all your texts will be sent across the network without any kind of decent encryption. And WhatsApp is almost unusable unless you consent to uploading all your contacts to Facebook. (IIRC this was the red line that got crossed that caused the WhatsApp founder to quit FB post-acquisition.) Signal is a good recommendation, but you won’t be able to convince 100% of people you need to interact with over text to use Signal. You might convince friends and family, but not acquaintances or random people who might need to text with (like your electrician etc.) Given the tradeoffs, iMessage is pretty good for day-to-day messaging.
  - _cenw 3y ago
    It's a tradeoff. Do you want messages from strangers to run through a bunch of parsers that historically had problems, or do you want to take advantage of your peer group using iMessage. I'm outside the US, so I don't even need to consider. Nobody here uses iMessage, even the people with iPhones.
  - emsixteen 3y ago
    > And WhatsApp is almost unusable unless you consent to uploading all your contacts to Facebook. What? How-so? I've never allowed it to do that and it works fine for me, across iOS/Mac/Windows.
    - regecks 3y ago
      It works but it shows phone numbers rather than contact names and you can’t assign a name to a number without giving access to your entire contacts … it ticks me off.

raverbashing 3y ago

"but but my precious text bubble colors!!1" Yeah, it seems iMessage in iPhone is like IE in Windows, a needlessly ingrained mess for market segmentation purposes

the_third_wave 3y ago

That is because iMessage has the same function as the night men in the Eagles song Hotel California: "Relax,” said the night man, “We are programmed to receive You can check out any time you like but you can never leave" Somehow fittingly that song is about the excesses of American culture ... also about the uneasy balance between art and commerce [1] according to one of its authors, Don Henley while also having been interpreted as being all about American decadence and burnout, too much money, corruption, drugs and arrogance; too little humility and heart and a metaphor for hedonism, self-destruction, and greed .... [1] https://www.smoothradio.com/features/the-story-of/eagles-hotel-california-lyrics-meaning-facts/ https://www.smoothradio.com/features/the-story-of/eagles-hot...