4 ms·

-“To be quite frank this mostly bullshit” -some ramble about how it’s all too hard Excellent debating style right there!

by alvah 3y ago

michaelmrose 3y ago
You dismissed the meat of the argument. People have finite amounts of time and money. In present context households are already running full tilt usually with 2 full time workers just to stay in one spot with too little in reserve to even cover ordinary disasters. It is this surplus of time and money that creates the opportunity for exciting things to happen like starting a small businesses. Increasing costs and inequality rob us of the future surpluses that would be produced by such endeavors. Should we want to enrich our society it isn't sufficient to pretend opportunity exists we just endeavor to actually support it.
- alvah 3y ago
  "You dismissed" - what, by calling it mostly bullshit? The rest of your response is similar to your previous rambles about how it's all too hard, despite the countless examples, a mere google search away, of people who have started and run businesses in Western countries without instantly starving to death, or whatever your mostly-bullshit argument is.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    So say you are liquid for 1000 bucks with average credit and a 50 hour a week time commitment to working and commuting to earn just enough to get by. This or worse is about half the country You need expertise, time, and money to start a business. The majority of people lack not one but all 3. This is probably why only 9% own an established business. Indeed jp Morgan says that future business owners on average start out substantially wealthier. https://www.jpmorganchase.com/institute/research/small-business/small-business-ownership-liquid-wealth-startup-exit#finding-1 https://www.jpmorganchase.com/institute/research/small-busin... Which supports my assertion that the majority are ill positioned to start a business. Money buys time, money buys relevant expertise in, wealth makes risk tenable because failure doesn't mean homelessness, money and financial health in fact buys access to borrowed money. Everyone could just do what only 9% of people do is an incredibly privileged thing to say it's like Zuckerberg saying anyone can have a website or bolt saying anyone can run. It's insulting.
    - alvah 3y ago
      Your glass is half empty. There are businesses you can start for under $1000, you may not personally be aware of them, but they exist (the business I own was started with much less than this amount in 2016 & has delivered decent returns with part-time hours since, no particular skills other than basic English & hard work required). Obviously you will need to spend time over your nominated 50 hour a week time commitment, why is this impossible? If you want to build wealth you need to put in the time. I don't recall claiming any of this was easy. I guess some elements of capitalism need people with your defeatist outlook, to be lifelong wage slaves.
      - michaelmrose 3y ago
        The glass is what it is. To be defeatist is to commit yourself to failure. I have no such ambition or shall I say lack thereof. To be a realist is to properly understand the world as it is and plan accordingly. If one wants to actually succeed then this is infinitely more valuable that fake optimism. There are a lot of as you put it "wage slave" businesses which have 45 people making barely enough to live 4 folks making 20% more in semi-supervisory positions working 60 hours a week with lots of unpaid overtime effectively making less per hour than the grunts and 1 guy making a decent living. You can accurately say that any of the guys could in theory move up but the logic breaks down trying to apply it to the group as a whole with one position essentially worth having anyone COULD move up but EVERYONE never could. Society is essentially so constructed in the large. We can't all sell each other financial products. If we want society to function we will have to have a whole lot of people who are modestly compensated and I don't just mean french fry cooks. There are a lot of positions that are both challenging and necessary that really aren't paid that much. These people aren't all stupid losers and they aren't all too stupid to be business tycoons. They fit into the slots that society made and if we want people to move up we ought to do a better job at creating such slots and allocating resources to them. Bemoaning the fact that people haven't pulled themselves up by their bootstraps is basically useless. What business did you start?

-“To be quite frank this mostly bullshit” -some ramble about how it’s all too hard Excellent debating style right there!

by alvah 3y ago

-“To be quite frank this mostly bullshit” -some ramble about how it’s all too hard Excellent debating style right there!

michaelmrose 3y ago

You dismissed the meat of the argument. People have finite amounts of time and money. In present context households are already running full tilt usually with 2 full time workers just to stay in one spot with too little in reserve to even cover ordinary disasters. It is this surplus of time and money that creates the opportunity for exciting things to happen like starting a small businesses. Increasing costs and inequality rob us of the future surpluses that would be produced by such endeavors. Should we want to enrich our society it isn't sufficient to pretend opportunity exists we just endeavor to actually support it.

alvah 3y ago
"You dismissed" - what, by calling it mostly bullshit? The rest of your response is similar to your previous rambles about how it's all too hard, despite the countless examples, a mere google search away, of people who have started and run businesses in Western countries without instantly starving to death, or whatever your mostly-bullshit argument is.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  So say you are liquid for 1000 bucks with average credit and a 50 hour a week time commitment to working and commuting to earn just enough to get by. This or worse is about half the country You need expertise, time, and money to start a business. The majority of people lack not one but all 3. This is probably why only 9% own an established business. Indeed jp Morgan says that future business owners on average start out substantially wealthier. https://www.jpmorganchase.com/institute/research/small-business/small-business-ownership-liquid-wealth-startup-exit#finding-1 https://www.jpmorganchase.com/institute/research/small-busin... Which supports my assertion that the majority are ill positioned to start a business. Money buys time, money buys relevant expertise in, wealth makes risk tenable because failure doesn't mean homelessness, money and financial health in fact buys access to borrowed money. Everyone could just do what only 9% of people do is an incredibly privileged thing to say it's like Zuckerberg saying anyone can have a website or bolt saying anyone can run. It's insulting.
  - alvah 3y ago
    Your glass is half empty. There are businesses you can start for under $1000, you may not personally be aware of them, but they exist (the business I own was started with much less than this amount in 2016 & has delivered decent returns with part-time hours since, no particular skills other than basic English & hard work required). Obviously you will need to spend time over your nominated 50 hour a week time commitment, why is this impossible? If you want to build wealth you need to put in the time. I don't recall claiming any of this was easy. I guess some elements of capitalism need people with your defeatist outlook, to be lifelong wage slaves.
    - michaelmrose 3y ago
      The glass is what it is. To be defeatist is to commit yourself to failure. I have no such ambition or shall I say lack thereof. To be a realist is to properly understand the world as it is and plan accordingly. If one wants to actually succeed then this is infinitely more valuable that fake optimism. There are a lot of as you put it "wage slave" businesses which have 45 people making barely enough to live 4 folks making 20% more in semi-supervisory positions working 60 hours a week with lots of unpaid overtime effectively making less per hour than the grunts and 1 guy making a decent living. You can accurately say that any of the guys could in theory move up but the logic breaks down trying to apply it to the group as a whole with one position essentially worth having anyone COULD move up but EVERYONE never could. Society is essentially so constructed in the large. We can't all sell each other financial products. If we want society to function we will have to have a whole lot of people who are modestly compensated and I don't just mean french fry cooks. There are a lot of positions that are both challenging and necessary that really aren't paid that much. These people aren't all stupid losers and they aren't all too stupid to be business tycoons. They fit into the slots that society made and if we want people to move up we ought to do a better job at creating such slots and allocating resources to them. Bemoaning the fact that people haven't pulled themselves up by their bootstraps is basically useless. What business did you start?