3 ms·

I'm all on board calling Google out for slowly implementing a user data protection racket, where Google owns all the data and everyone else is squeezed out and

I'm all on board calling Google out for slowly implementing a user data protection racket, where Google owns all the data and everyone else is squeezed out and has to go through Google as The central data broker. At the same time this user agent reduction thing seems like a decent idea at first blush and good for users privacy.

dpkirchner 3y ago
TBH I'm surprised the User-Agent header has survived as long as it has. Referer, too.
- ravenstine 3y ago
  That header and Referer were always a mistake. I don't think The Google's motivation is pure, but I agree in principle. A lot of sites will break for people as a result, though. Maybe that's what The Google wants, though.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    > Referer were always a mistake Yeah, it's even spelled wrong!
- jamesfinlayson 3y ago
  I agree that user agent is not the best idea but it helps endlessly when you need to find out what browser a non techy person is using - just ask them to go to one of the endless sites that tells you what browser you're using based on the user agent string.
- elashri 3y ago
  My web development knowledge is very limited. But isn't this the main method where simple websites (most static generators) used to decide if the user is browsing from a mobile or not and serve a version based on that? I would appreciate it if someone explain what other things people do to tackle this, or if I'm completely wrong?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jrajav 3y ago
    Most responsive design is based on screen dimensions with CSS media queries these days, not on the actual class of device.
    - eru 3y ago
      Though I can see justifications for giving people a different UI depending on whether they use a touch screen or a mouse.
    - dbbk 3y ago
      Although really they should be using a pointer media query. Lots of sites I see randomly turn into mobile versions on desktop as soon as you resize the window narrow.
  - rascul 3y ago
    I think media queries have been the way to do that for awhile. Or I think there's some javascript trick to do it.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    That's mostly done client-side these days; having the server treat clients differently doesn't happen as much anymore.
  - asu_thomas 3y ago
    [dead]
  - cpburns2009 3y ago
    The server now needs to respond with the Accept-CH header specifying it wants the client to send the mobile client header by including the "UA-Mobile" value. A compliant client will then send the Sec-CH-UA-Mobile header in its next request with either the value "?0" or "?1".
- xref 3y ago
  Without Referer how will jwz dot org troll HN users?!
- omoikane 3y ago
  Referer is not quite the same as how it was. In recent years, the default behavior in most cases is for the browser to either send just the origin, or no referer at all. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Referrer-Policy https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Re... "Origin" means no path, so the referer might tell me which search engine the user used, but not what search query was done. It's much better than in the old days, where I might even see someone's session ID in the referer.
  - judge2020 3y ago
    YouTube got around this in the earlier days since the referer header didn’t sent query strings. Maybe if referer hadn’t existed, YouTube urls would look like /watch/ViDeOID
soulofmischief 3y ago
If that were really their motive, a better strategy would be making user agent string customization a first-class feature.
- fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
  No, because approximately nobody would customize it.
  - soulofmischief 3y ago
    Then generalize it by default. I just can't buy that Google really has this motive when they simultaneously are introducing WEI.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
      I think it’s a mistake to assume consistent intentions from a company as big as Google and a product as big as Chrome
      - soulofmischief 3y ago
        Yes, you shouldn't assume consistent intentions from a behemoth like Google. However, in large and fragmented companies, leadership's moral compass often faces numerous pressures, and on average will trend downward in an economic system with perverse incentives such as the one we have today.
- hedora 3y ago
  They could also use the user agent: "", or omit the http header entirely.
- eru 3y ago
  You can already do that with extension, can't you?
  - 3y ago
ben-schaaf 3y ago
Will that finally bring an end to having to use user-agent-switcher to get some sites to work on Firefox?

dpkirchner 3y ago

TBH I'm surprised the User-Agent header has survived as long as it has. Referer, too.

ravenstine 3y ago
That header and Referer were always a mistake. I don't think The Google's motivation is pure, but I agree in principle. A lot of sites will break for people as a result, though. Maybe that's what The Google wants, though.
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  > Referer were always a mistake Yeah, it's even spelled wrong!
jamesfinlayson 3y ago
I agree that user agent is not the best idea but it helps endlessly when you need to find out what browser a non techy person is using - just ask them to go to one of the endless sites that tells you what browser you're using based on the user agent string.
elashri 3y ago
My web development knowledge is very limited. But isn't this the main method where simple websites (most static generators) used to decide if the user is browsing from a mobile or not and serve a version based on that? I would appreciate it if someone explain what other things people do to tackle this, or if I'm completely wrong?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jrajav 3y ago
  Most responsive design is based on screen dimensions with CSS media queries these days, not on the actual class of device.
  - eru 3y ago
    Though I can see justifications for giving people a different UI depending on whether they use a touch screen or a mouse.
  - dbbk 3y ago
    Although really they should be using a pointer media query. Lots of sites I see randomly turn into mobile versions on desktop as soon as you resize the window narrow.
- rascul 3y ago
  I think media queries have been the way to do that for awhile. Or I think there's some javascript trick to do it.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  That's mostly done client-side these days; having the server treat clients differently doesn't happen as much anymore.
- asu_thomas 3y ago
  [dead]
- cpburns2009 3y ago
  The server now needs to respond with the Accept-CH header specifying it wants the client to send the mobile client header by including the "UA-Mobile" value. A compliant client will then send the Sec-CH-UA-Mobile header in its next request with either the value "?0" or "?1".
xref 3y ago
Without Referer how will jwz dot org troll HN users?!
omoikane 3y ago
Referer is not quite the same as how it was. In recent years, the default behavior in most cases is for the browser to either send just the origin, or no referer at all. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Referrer-Policy https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Re... "Origin" means no path, so the referer might tell me which search engine the user used, but not what search query was done. It's much better than in the old days, where I might even see someone's session ID in the referer.
- judge2020 3y ago
  YouTube got around this in the earlier days since the referer header didn’t sent query strings. Maybe if referer hadn’t existed, YouTube urls would look like /watch/ViDeOID

soulofmischief 3y ago

If that were really their motive, a better strategy would be making user agent string customization a first-class feature.

fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
No, because approximately nobody would customize it.
- soulofmischief 3y ago
  Then generalize it by default. I just can't buy that Google really has this motive when they simultaneously are introducing WEI.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
    I think it’s a mistake to assume consistent intentions from a company as big as Google and a product as big as Chrome
    - soulofmischief 3y ago
      Yes, you shouldn't assume consistent intentions from a behemoth like Google. However, in large and fragmented companies, leadership's moral compass often faces numerous pressures, and on average will trend downward in an economic system with perverse incentives such as the one we have today.
hedora 3y ago
They could also use the user agent: "", or omit the http header entirely.
eru 3y ago
You can already do that with extension, can't you?
- 3y ago

ben-schaaf 3y ago

Will that finally bring an end to having to use user-agent-switcher to get some sites to work on Firefox?