4 ms·

I'm not sure I agree, but it would be worth studying empirically. The film Strange World, for instance, bombed, but has a 72% on RT and is certainly politically

I'm not sure I agree, but it would be worth studying empirically. The film Strange World, for instance, bombed, but has a 72% on RT and is certainly politically correct. It was quite poorly marketed.[0] While studios aren't in the habit of sharing marketing budgets, we can safely say the marketing expenditure was low. This is a single datapoint, but my hypothesis is that political correctness does indeed account for a measurable (beyond noise) portion of a RT score. Marketing spend probably matters more, and genuinely excellent non-PC films (say, Oppenheimer) can succeed without PC, but PC does contribute. [0]https://fandomwire.com/theyve-been-barely-advertising-it-until-last-week-disney-faces-backlash-for-negligible-marketing-for-strange-world-first-disney-animated-movie-with-lgbtq-lead/ https://fandomwire.com/theyve-been-barely-advertising-it-unt...

ryandrake 3y ago
What even makes one movie politically correct and another one not? The phrase has been watered down to the point where I think it now just means "vaguely liked by one political team and disliked by the other." So instead of using a meaningless euphemism, OP should articulate what exact themes, stories, or characters they think lead to a good critic score?
- cyrialize 3y ago
  I agree, I feel like it's being used similar to "woke" and "anti-woke".
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  Simple "politically correct" films put the political narrative ahead of all things including historical accuracy, established canon, accuracy to other media (books, games, etc), scientific accuracy, or even good story telling. They focus first on their political objectives, their political views, and what political issues they wish to advocate for above all else This has been an increasing trope in modern film and shows. "The narrative" is now even a meme... The other coded phrase for a "politically correct" film is "re-imagined for a modern audience"
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Political narrative? Can we get even more vague? That's what I was getting at: People complain about movies and their "political narratives" and "political objectives" but nobody wants to mention specific narratives or objectives, and why they object to them. I don't recall anything overtly political in most modern movies. There was no campaign speech to elect Biden in the latest Captain America. So what exact "narratives" is everyone complaining about? Be specific. EDIT: Ugh, looks like replier reached for personal attacks, so this thread has sadly derailed into flamewar :( Hitting the eject button.
    - phpisthebest 3y ago
      Either you are living under a rock, are being purposely obtuse, or support the politics being pushed so you either do not see it or just willfully ignore it. >There was no campaign speech to elect Biden in the latest Captain America This is just a stupid statement >I don't recall anything overtly political in most modern movies. Snow White, Indian Jones 5, Just about Every Marvel Movie Past infinity War, 2 of the 3 Star Wars Films in the new Trilogy, The Little Mermaid... Shall I go on? It is more pronounced in TV Shows however, She Hulk, Season 2 and 3 of Witcher, Rings of Power, etc etc etc >So what exact "narratives" is everyone complaining about? For starters [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPE7-PRL0M8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPE7-PRL0M8 This that just just the tip of the ice berg...
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        > Snow White, Indian Jones 5, Just about Every Marvel Movie Past infinity War, 2 of the 3 Star Wars Films in the new Trilogy, The Little Mermaid... Shall I go on? That's a list of movies, not an identification of political content in movies.
  - one_level_deep2 3y ago
    Isn’t this just dependent on the political views the person brings to the movie? Recent history has shown us that any narrative can be termed “political” if it helps one side drive a narrative. Just look at the faux outrage over induction ovens and banning beers. Completely fabricated nonsense used to drive a narrative. This is the true trope.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  The rules are even codified: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/oscars-inclusion-rules-sparking-debate-1235343128/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/osca...
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Got it. So the specific issue is that women and underrepresented minority groups are being included in casts and crews, and that an award show is adding such inclusion to their criteria... and that's "politically correct". Huh, okay.. Anyway... I'm glad at least someone's being specific--thanks!
- baryphonic 3y ago
  Let's use a less contentious topic: FOSS vs proprietary software. There is a common sentiment I've seen on HN that FOSS is superior to proprietary software, and all else being equal, I agree with that sentiment. However, in reality, not all else is equal. Some proprietary software is just better at solving certain problems than FOSS equivalents – maybe the proprietary software is more reliable or has a better UX or is more regularly maintained or has more features a user wants or differs along a host of other dimensions. Thus, if someone makes a categorical claim that all FOSS software is superior to similar proprietary software, we would regard that comment as propaganda. This doesn't mean that FOSS software is bad or that good FOSS software can't be created or that no one should try to create excellent FOSS software. This is an analogy or what I mean by "political correctness" (or related concepts like "wokeness" and "social justice warrior"). Great art communicates truth about the human condition in a beautiful way. This is, of course, open to interpretation, yet somehow many people agree that, for example, The Godfather is a great film. Why? I believe the film shows us some truth about the human condition (particularly our ability to descend into evil) through a gripping story with excellent characters, visuals, dialogue, plotting, etc. When we substitute an arbitrary checklist of criteria a film must meet that have nothing to do with communicating truth about the human condition in a beautiful way, we are engaging in "political correctness," and we have ceased to value art but instead propaganda. For instance, if we were to use the new Academy standards for Oscar-nominated movies, the Godfather would fail – the cast is almost all white, has no LGBT and IIRC includes the n-word. Amadeus, another excellent film (one of the most praised in Oscar history) would certainly fail, since the cast is all white and almost entirely male, as we would expect from a film set in 18th century Vienna. This does not mean great art cannot have diverse casts, LGBT characters or a lack of "problematic" content. For a recent example, the excellent show Andor ticks almost all of the DEI checkboxes – LGBT character(s), diverse cast –, but it also has smart writing, interesting characters, sensible plots, beautiful visuals and a compelling story. As long as the former are subordinated to the latter, a work remains art and not "politically correct" propaganda. At the same time, Oppenheimer ticks almost none of the DEI checkboxes and yet is arguably one of the best films of this century. > So instead of using a meaningless euphemism, OP should articulate what exact themes, stories, or characters they think lead to a good critic score? I think this comment betrays exactly what I'm critiquing. Great art can't be shoved in a box like this. Mediocre art has identifiable flaws - maybe it's visually bland or maybe the dialogue is poor or the characters act in inexplicable ways. These all detract from the beauty and truth of the work.

ryandrake 3y ago

What even makes one movie politically correct and another one not? The phrase has been watered down to the point where I think it now just means "vaguely liked by one political team and disliked by the other." So instead of using a meaningless euphemism, OP should articulate what exact themes, stories, or characters they think lead to a good critic score?

cyrialize 3y ago
I agree, I feel like it's being used similar to "woke" and "anti-woke".
phpisthebest 3y ago
Simple "politically correct" films put the political narrative ahead of all things including historical accuracy, established canon, accuracy to other media (books, games, etc), scientific accuracy, or even good story telling. They focus first on their political objectives, their political views, and what political issues they wish to advocate for above all else This has been an increasing trope in modern film and shows. "The narrative" is now even a meme... The other coded phrase for a "politically correct" film is "re-imagined for a modern audience"
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Political narrative? Can we get even more vague? That's what I was getting at: People complain about movies and their "political narratives" and "political objectives" but nobody wants to mention specific narratives or objectives, and why they object to them. I don't recall anything overtly political in most modern movies. There was no campaign speech to elect Biden in the latest Captain America. So what exact "narratives" is everyone complaining about? Be specific. EDIT: Ugh, looks like replier reached for personal attacks, so this thread has sadly derailed into flamewar :( Hitting the eject button.
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    Either you are living under a rock, are being purposely obtuse, or support the politics being pushed so you either do not see it or just willfully ignore it. >There was no campaign speech to elect Biden in the latest Captain America This is just a stupid statement >I don't recall anything overtly political in most modern movies. Snow White, Indian Jones 5, Just about Every Marvel Movie Past infinity War, 2 of the 3 Star Wars Films in the new Trilogy, The Little Mermaid... Shall I go on? It is more pronounced in TV Shows however, She Hulk, Season 2 and 3 of Witcher, Rings of Power, etc etc etc >So what exact "narratives" is everyone complaining about? For starters [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPE7-PRL0M8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPE7-PRL0M8 This that just just the tip of the ice berg...
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > Snow White, Indian Jones 5, Just about Every Marvel Movie Past infinity War, 2 of the 3 Star Wars Films in the new Trilogy, The Little Mermaid... Shall I go on? That's a list of movies, not an identification of political content in movies.
- one_level_deep2 3y ago
  Isn’t this just dependent on the political views the person brings to the movie? Recent history has shown us that any narrative can be termed “political” if it helps one side drive a narrative. Just look at the faux outrage over induction ovens and banning beers. Completely fabricated nonsense used to drive a narrative. This is the true trope.
WalterBright 3y ago
The rules are even codified: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/oscars-inclusion-rules-sparking-debate-1235343128/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/osca...
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Got it. So the specific issue is that women and underrepresented minority groups are being included in casts and crews, and that an award show is adding such inclusion to their criteria... and that's "politically correct". Huh, okay.. Anyway... I'm glad at least someone's being specific--thanks!
baryphonic 3y ago
Let's use a less contentious topic: FOSS vs proprietary software. There is a common sentiment I've seen on HN that FOSS is superior to proprietary software, and all else being equal, I agree with that sentiment. However, in reality, not all else is equal. Some proprietary software is just better at solving certain problems than FOSS equivalents – maybe the proprietary software is more reliable or has a better UX or is more regularly maintained or has more features a user wants or differs along a host of other dimensions. Thus, if someone makes a categorical claim that all FOSS software is superior to similar proprietary software, we would regard that comment as propaganda. This doesn't mean that FOSS software is bad or that good FOSS software can't be created or that no one should try to create excellent FOSS software. This is an analogy or what I mean by "political correctness" (or related concepts like "wokeness" and "social justice warrior"). Great art communicates truth about the human condition in a beautiful way. This is, of course, open to interpretation, yet somehow many people agree that, for example, The Godfather is a great film. Why? I believe the film shows us some truth about the human condition (particularly our ability to descend into evil) through a gripping story with excellent characters, visuals, dialogue, plotting, etc. When we substitute an arbitrary checklist of criteria a film must meet that have nothing to do with communicating truth about the human condition in a beautiful way, we are engaging in "political correctness," and we have ceased to value art but instead propaganda. For instance, if we were to use the new Academy standards for Oscar-nominated movies, the Godfather would fail – the cast is almost all white, has no LGBT and IIRC includes the n-word. Amadeus, another excellent film (one of the most praised in Oscar history) would certainly fail, since the cast is all white and almost entirely male, as we would expect from a film set in 18th century Vienna. This does not mean great art cannot have diverse casts, LGBT characters or a lack of "problematic" content. For a recent example, the excellent show Andor ticks almost all of the DEI checkboxes – LGBT character(s), diverse cast –, but it also has smart writing, interesting characters, sensible plots, beautiful visuals and a compelling story. As long as the former are subordinated to the latter, a work remains art and not "politically correct" propaganda. At the same time, Oppenheimer ticks almost none of the DEI checkboxes and yet is arguably one of the best films of this century. > So instead of using a meaningless euphemism, OP should articulate what exact themes, stories, or characters they think lead to a good critic score? I think this comment betrays exactly what I'm critiquing. Great art can't be shoved in a box like this. Mediocre art has identifiable flaws - maybe it's visually bland or maybe the dialogue is poor or the characters act in inexplicable ways. These all detract from the beauty and truth of the work.