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Bun 1.0 announcement [video]
- leejoramo 3y agoI played with Bun around a year ago. Looked promising, but was not an easy drop in replacement for nodejs in my projects. I don’t recall the issues and give Bun’s beta state I didn’t give it much effort. Now that 1.0 is out I will give it another try. I could see myself migrating to it within a year if Bun’s performance and developer usability claims are justified
- j-pb 3y agoDespite the 1.0 release tag, given that it's written in Zig, which is super duper Alpha, I'd trust it only as far as I can throw a floppy with its source code.
- nifty_beaks 3y agoI completely forgot it was written in Zig. Thanks for the heads up. I completely agree, I don't see how this can be labeled 1.0 release.
- math_dandy 3y agoI see it as a commitment to keep the public API stable.
- bobbylarrybobby 3y agoIf they don't change the public API, they could rewrite it in Fortran for all I care.
- j-pb 3y agoFortran would at least have a reliable compiler.
- c-hendricks 3y agoI'd imagine a floppy would fly quite far when thrown like a frisbee tho
- gfodor 3y agoFascinating, do you have literally any evidence whatsoever that this project doesn't work or isn't realiable?
- KolmogorovComp 3y agoA project can only be as reliable as its compiler. Zig currently suffers from a number of miscompilation [0] that is quite higher than for a more mature compiler. [0]: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Amiscompilation https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue...
- dudus 3y agoWhy would it matter to you as a user, which language it was used before it was compiled to the machine code you run?
- bryancoxwell 3y agoChanges to Zig could force changes to Bun, and changes to Zig are all but guaranteed.
- generichuman 3y agoIt could force changes to Bun _internals_, which doesn't really affect users if the Bun team does not want to break API.
- bryancoxwell 3y agoI’m just not sure how you guarantee no changes to the API without knowing the size or scope of changes that may come to the language it’s built on.
- slotrans 3y agoAs an example, Java does just fine at guaranteeing its own semantics completely independently of what happens to C++.
- gingerrr 3y agoTrue, though you can't claim that's an analogous situation - C++ wasn't in alpha when the JVM was implemented. Decoupling is of course possible, but the difference here is that the lang powering the runtime is not guaranteed to remain the same language it currently is, since it's in active initial development. That introduces a unique axis of risk to runtime stability, it's dishonest to pretend otherwise.
- pseg134 3y ago
- Thaxll 3y agoFor the end user it does not matters though it's kind of a detail of implementation.
- j-pb 3y agoIt matters plenty if your production system goes down because of bugs caused by miscompilation of your js runtime. This level of instability doesn't uphold the social contract that a 1.0 implies.
- bottlepalm 3y agoIt does worry me as a potential adopter of Bun what the long term outlook of the project is if the language used to write Bun isn't very accessible to prospective open source contributors.
- AndyKelley 3y agoYou seem to be implying that zig is not open source or is otherwise unfriendly to contributions...? It's a 501(c)(3) non profit and has been open source since `git init`. Even the financials are transparent to the public. What else could we possibly do?
- bottlepalm 3y agoZig being a language that most people are not familiar with is a very high barrier of entry in it of itself. Given how few projects are written in it, the ROI of learning it is not that great. I'm not 'against' Zig, it's just basic Lindy effect stuff. People don't want to build or invest in a foundation and then left hung out to dry. Just like the rest of my development choices, I try to take calculated risk so that the platforms I'm building on have a high chance of lasting into the future. We all know that a rewrite due to obsolescence can be the death knell for a project.
- rhodysurf 3y agoI’ve used zig for like a week total in my life and during that time I had a PR accepted to the main repo. It’s very much friendly to contributors.
- Matthias247 3y agoI don't have any opinion on Bun itself. But as someone who is pretty experienced in running large scale services, I wouldn't have a problem to use a tool that is marked as stable but internally built on top of unstable tools. As long as compilation is mostly deterministic (which is usually given for compilers), a good set of unit and integration tests should prove that the software is actually doing what its supposed to do and can be trusted with workloads. If those tests are not available, then even using a mature language might not provide a guarantee that the actual product is better. Sure - the Bun developers might have a super hard time if Zig changes its syntax, library APIs or other things. But that would be a maintenance hassle for the Bun developers, and not necessarily for the Bun users.
- trebor 3y agoBun is a very nice runtime. I played with it for several hours, and was impressed by how snappy it feels.
- CharlesW 3y agoWhy are we wasting time saying "Bun runtime" when "Buntime" is right there? The video is well done, and I'm fascinated that it's built on WebKit instead of V8. Good luck, Bun.team()!
- phillipcarter 3y agoReally excited by this! Between Bun, Deno, and obviously Node, there's some serious innovation happening in the non-browser JS world.
- colinmcd 3y agoColin here, I work on Bun. Bun 1.0 is actually still compiling but we decided not to delay the premiere of this announcement video since it was already on calendars. We'll be publishing a full announcement post later today that's more detailed than this video.
- sibeliuss 3y agoReport back to this thread with a link please, when the post / v1 is ready
- chinmaykunkikar 3y agoI'm keeping an eye on https://bun.sh/blog https://bun.sh/blog for the update
- fithisux 3y agoMe too
- graypegg 3y agohttps://bun.sh/blog/bun-v1.0 https://bun.sh/blog/bun-v1.0 Edit: Sorry it went down again. Not sure if this will be the eventual link.
- threatofrain 3y agoWould love to see the serverless ecosystem embrace either Bun or Deno.
- csjh 3y ago[dead]
- graypegg 3y agoUnrelated to the release itself: I like this direct format of video changelog. It's pretty slick, and doesn't spend too much time meandering. Of course text changelogs are always required, and I can only assume they will publish one today, but this Apple-ish format is very "eat a sandwich and watch something" compatible.
- colinmcd 3y agoWe are releasing a proper announcement later! This video was scheduled to premiere at 10am but due to some last minute bugs (and Murphy's Law) the build didn't finish in time. We decided not to delay the premiere because it was already on calendars and whatnot.
- graypegg 3y agoHaha, that's always how it works, it wouldn't be a real launch day with out a little bit of chaos ;) Nice job on the video to you and the team, and congrats on the 1.0 launch!
- RetroTechie 3y agoRegardless of nice video or not: sorry I am not a fan of video to explain stuff that a bit of text does better (or at least equally well). From the YT page: "Bun 1.0 is here! Bun is an all-in-one JavaScript runtime & toolkit designed for speed, complete with a bundler, test runner, and Node.js-compatible package manager." There! Add a link or 2 to project page, status, FAQ or whatever, done. Video is good for explaining some concepts in a visual way, or the cream on top for explaining other stuff.
- graypegg 3y agoIt’s not replacing the text change log. The text change log will appear with the release, which is currently held back due to what sounds like a build issue.
- davidy123 3y agoNearly totally unrelated, but what is with the recent trend of showing people talking to but not look at the camera? Do they save money that way? It drives me bananas and is just a distraction from the content being conveyed.. Altogether, with their obvious attempt at slickness, I find this video rather corny.
- hardwaregeek 3y agoHaving someone look directly at the camera can sometimes feel unnerving in video. Also it's a good way to hide a teleprompter and the side-to-side eye movement
- davidy123 3y agoI'm not sure about unnerving. Psychologically, I know I'm looking at a recording. But when they're not looking at the viewer, it looks like they've got better things to do. I see this being used all the time recently, including on large productions. I assumed it's meant to convey the feeling of talking with someone who may also be talking to others. But it gives me hives (for which I'm losing points, but what can I say).
- colinmcd 3y agoThis video is definitely corny. (I'm in it.) This is intended as an extremely accessible introduction to Bun, definitely not targeted at the HN crowd. I think we really just wanted to make something with some production value to reflect the fact that Bun itself is post-1.0 and more stable/polished. The two camera thing is a classic trick that lets you add some visual interest. Basically you're cutting between two angles. And you can only be looking directly at one camera at a time so you won't be looking into the lens for one of the two shots.
- AntonCTO 3y agoIn my opinion, this is because the angle is too small. Just add another 15-25° and it would be good.
- 3y ago
- daft_pink 3y agoLooks really awesome if it works. Sign me up
- stephc_int13 3y agoVery nice project, not a tool I would use (I rarely use Javascript) but I like the design philosophy behind it, and the focus on performance and simplicity. I think the announcement video was a bit forced/awkward, obviously reading a prompt, professionally produced but maybe not the most efficient way to promote this tool for this team.
- Cieric 3y agoLink to the github for anyone who is interested. https://github.com/oven-sh/bun https://github.com/oven-sh/bun
- truth_seeker 3y agoIn addition to FFI, socket, package manager and build system performance, I really wish to somehow automagically improve (similar to zero cost abstraction of Rust) my existing business logic in NodeJS which uses methods like map, filter reduce along with utility libraries like Lodash and RamdaJS etc. which are super helpful but causes lot of object allocations underneath.
- toastercat 3y agoI don't have time to watch the whole video, but can anyone confirm if 1.0 brings Windows support?
- simse 3y agoEverything about Bun is so exciting, not just the runtime, but the package manager is impressively fast. On my small website, Bun is twice as fast pnpm which is already much faster than yarn which is much faster than npm.
- syspec 3y agoI've not used Bun (yet), but this video managed to be to the point while delivering the information in a way that I probably would have skimmed through if reading a blog entry. I do wish the "each speaker holds the bun while talking" bit was kept the whole way through
- jpeeler 3y agoIf that's your only complaint, I'd say they nailed it.
- lairv 3y agoHow different are the performance between Bun and Go ? It'd be really convenient to have a decently fast backend runtime, but more expressive than Go and without the hassle of NodeJS
- metaltyphoon 3y agoJave or C#?
- SirensOfTitan 3y agoI’ve been playing with Rust as a web backend, and while I still feel really unsure about it, I’ve been surprisingly productive. With that, I occasionally run into some issue with async or lifetimes or pinning that really slows me down, though I’m unsure if that’s partly being a beginner. Clojure is fairly interesting too, and it uses a similar async model to go.
- 0xCAP 3y agoI'd pick go's expressiveness over js' any time of the day. As a mainly typescript dev.
- PoignardAzur 3y ago> One Bun enthusiast even wrote a plugin that lets you import Rust files into your JavaScript. Oh wow, that sounds amazing. I would love an easy to way to use Rust crates from JS projects. EDIT: I haven't been able to find that plugin or how it works, though. Looks like it's based on the esbuild pluing API?
- llwj 3y agoThe performance differences are so large (5x, 6x, and 18x faster) that I can't believe them. Is bun really faster on large codebases, not just on hello world?
- christophilus 3y agoYes. I found it to be about 2x as fast on a real world project when I kicked the tires 6 months ago or so. I’m sure it varies quite a bit based on the project internals.
- fithisux 3y agoIs it a drop in replacement for node? Do I need node in my computer?
- AntonCTO 3y agoChecked the docs after many months again: - Workspace: check - Bundling: check - Minifying (server, browser): check - Node runtime: check - Browser runtime: check - Loaders (assets, .node, .wasm): check - Hot reload: check It's probably worth trying to replace webpack + pnpm. EDIT: Question: it is on roadmap to store downloaded file globally, like pnpm and maven do? This would be awesome! Off-topic: Which equipment was used for the video?
- AntonCTO 3y agoFound answer about global deps here: https://bun.sh/docs/install/cache https://bun.sh/docs/install/cache
- sgammon 3y agoVery excited for this. Congrats Bun team. So cool that the runtime space is heating up :)
- sprkv5 3y agoIf the performance improvements are that extensive, it would be interesting to see how close JavaScript + bun would get us to Go or Java on the backend. It would be a game changer if that gap can be closed.
- vasergen 3y agoI am not sure about node, but I think deno could be in trouble, it looks like they both compete for the same market
- OriPekelman 3y agoOh. Actually got released today .. so we also did https://platform.sh/blog/bun-support-is-here/ https://platform.sh/blog/bun-support-is-here/