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Windows these days prefers what they call modern standby and you probably don't want it. I have a ThinkPad and this is what it's like: Close the lid and stuff

Windows these days prefers what they call modern standby and you probably don't want it. I have a ThinkPad and this is what it's like: Close the lid and stuff laptop into my backpack. I travel to work and when I pull my machine out of my bag, it has 12% battery left, is super hot, and the fan is screaming like the machine is trying to fly away. All because Microsoft thinks PCs should be more like iPhones.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Windows these days prefers what they call modern standby and you probably don't want it. Who cares what Windows prefers, when I'm the user and I prefer Hibernate which works out of the box and I use it precisely because it avoids the issues you mentioned. Why don't you use Hibernate? SSDs are fast enough that a wake from hibernate is not much slower than a wake from sleep. On Ubuntu I don't even have this option because ... reasons.
- criddell 3y ago
  Windows can wake itself from hibernate. Killing all of the wake timers and editing specific keys in the registry will usually fix this, but it's messy and not something typical users are comfortable doing.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    What do you mean? Hibernate works out of the box. There nothing to "fix" in the registry for that to work.
    - vladvasiliu 3y ago
      There are supposedly fixes for it to stay hibernating. The issue isn't that it doesn't go to sleep. It's that it doesn't stay asleep.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        In hibernate the laptop stays powered off and nothing is running, you can even pull the power cord. It can't wake up from that. It will only wake up when you power it back on, not by itself. The wake up issues are for sleep mode, not hibernate where the CPU is completely off and unpowered.
    - tredre3 3y ago
      He means Windows can set a timer to wake up after a while to run scheduled tasks. You might not have noticed those wake timers because they are few and it usually works as expected with windows hibernating back after a few minutes. The difficulty of disabling wake timers has been exaggerated, though. It's in the advanced power settings, there's no need for the big scary registry. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/63070-enable-disable-wake-timers-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/63070-enable-disable-wak...
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >He means Windows can set a timer to wake up after a while to run scheduled tasks. Yes, it can se timer to wake automatically from hibernate, but that doesn't mean it does that automatically withotu you setting those timers. I can understand there have been some bugs in the past but that's anon-issue today.
  - darkclouds 3y ago
    > Windows can wake itself from hibernate. The USB bus and sound system is still the weak spot on a windows computer in my experience, this website, reddit, youtube, or dailymail generally takes them out. Surprised that people used sleep and hibernate, considering TSR's were invented in the dos days and the browser can do lots of fancy stuff. Theres even a reg setting to clear the page file on shutdown. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\ ClearPageFileAtShutdown Dword32 1
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    This. During lockdowns, I dusted off an old PC and set it up with windows for gaming. The computer was in front of my bed. One out of two nights, the thing would randomly wake out of hibernation, blasting the freaking blue bitlocker screen at me (password unlock, since that PC didn't have a tpm). This PC was kept reasonably up to date, too (usually installed whatever update at the most a day or two after they came out, complete with the reboot), so not sure what it was hoping to do, exactly.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >One out of two nights, the thing would randomly wake out of hibernation I'm sure you mistakenly used sleep instead of hibernate without knowing or remembering, to have that issue, or you had the issue where hibernate didn't work and reverted to sleep instead. I also had that issue and discovered that the Linux dual-boot installation with Grub's changes to the MBR broke Window's capability to hibernate, so me hitting hibernate was actually triggering sleep instead. Hibernate does not randomly wake up.
      - criddell 3y ago
        On Windows, hibernate is a sleep state. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/kernel/system-sleeping-states https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/k... Here’s an example of a Windows machine waking from hibernate and how it was fixed: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/707115/windows-10-random-wake-up-soon-after-hibernate/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/707115/windows-10-... These kinds of problems are not uncommon and are not always due to users confusing the different sleep states.
    - tym0 3y ago
      Right, I have the same problem with my PC, guess I'll look for those hacks.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Windows can wake itself from hibernate. You're confusing that with sleep. Windows can't wake itself from hibernate as the machine is fully powered off, not in some sleep state.
    - tredre3 3y ago
      No, he's right. Windows can wake the computer from total shut down even (S5). It uses RTC alarms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_clock_alarm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_clock_alarm
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        "Can be set to wake up" doesn't mean "will wake up".
        JetSpiegel 3y ago
        Modern versions wake up out of the box, you need to tinker with them to stop that.
- distract8901 3y ago
  That very much depends on your definition of "works". Does the machine go through the steps to save memory to disk and enter a low power state? Yes. But then windows can and does decide to wake itself up at any time, resulting in physical damage to the machine if it's stored in a closed bag. Discharging the battery and heating up the entire machine dramatically reduces your battery's lifetime. You cannot disable this behavior without going into the registry. So yes, it 'works', with the caveat that the machine may wake itself at any time, burn through the entire battery and possibly do irreprable damage to your machine.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >So yes, it 'works', with the caveat that the machine may wake itself at any time, burn through the entire battery and possibly do irreprable damage to your machine. You haven't read my comment fully or are confusing hibernate with sleep. I was talking about hibernate which 100% works, not sleep. Hibernate can't wake up your laptop as your machine is completely powered off.
    - callalex 3y ago
      I have had windows wake itself up after I clicked the “hibernate” button in the start menu. It’s pretty infuriating.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      Is that the case anymore with a battery and Intel ME? I don’t believe it is.
    - distract8901 3y ago
      > Hibernate can't wake up your laptop as your machine is completely powered off. That is quite simply not true.
- stonogo 3y ago
  On Ubuntu you do have this option, you just have to set it up yourself. They don't prioritize support for it because "people who want to hibernate a laptop" is a rounding error in their customer population statistics.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >On Ubuntu you do have this option, you just have to set it up yourself. Which means it's not available. Technically my car can also go diving underwater, you just have to set it up yourself for that. I expect stuff on my OS to work out of the box, not require hours of dangerous tinkering with the risk of braking, to get something basic to work. >They don't prioritize support for it because "people who want to hibernate a laptop" is a rounding error in their customer population statistics. I mean, it's feature that I absolutely use on Windows regularly, which means it matters a lot to me, the userbase of 1, to have it on Linux as well, I don't really care what the opinionated Ubuntu dev team think on the way I'm supped to use my own computer.
    - stonogo 3y ago
      Sounds like Ubuntu is not for you, then. For different reasons, it's not for me either. Good thing you've got Windows.
- Aerroon 3y ago
  After hibernate Windows thinks I have a laptop keyboard. If num lock is turned on then yuihjkbnm keys turn into a numpad. A restart or replugging the keyboard fixes it. Still annoying though. Windows also likes waking itself up for various reasons, but I don't remember if that was hibernate or sleep. Turning off everything except the power button wake up fixed it though. But I do agree - I would like a working hibernate in any OS I use. The next best thing is never turning it off though.
lostmsu 3y ago
It might be broken on your laptop, but it does not seem to be broken in general.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Windows these days prefers what they call modern standby and you probably don't want it. Who cares what Windows prefers, when I'm the user and I prefer Hibernate which works out of the box and I use it precisely because it avoids the issues you mentioned. Why don't you use Hibernate? SSDs are fast enough that a wake from hibernate is not much slower than a wake from sleep. On Ubuntu I don't even have this option because ... reasons.

criddell 3y ago
Windows can wake itself from hibernate. Killing all of the wake timers and editing specific keys in the registry will usually fix this, but it's messy and not something typical users are comfortable doing.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  What do you mean? Hibernate works out of the box. There nothing to "fix" in the registry for that to work.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    There are supposedly fixes for it to stay hibernating. The issue isn't that it doesn't go to sleep. It's that it doesn't stay asleep.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      In hibernate the laptop stays powered off and nothing is running, you can even pull the power cord. It can't wake up from that. It will only wake up when you power it back on, not by itself. The wake up issues are for sleep mode, not hibernate where the CPU is completely off and unpowered.
  - tredre3 3y ago
    He means Windows can set a timer to wake up after a while to run scheduled tasks. You might not have noticed those wake timers because they are few and it usually works as expected with windows hibernating back after a few minutes. The difficulty of disabling wake timers has been exaggerated, though. It's in the advanced power settings, there's no need for the big scary registry. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/63070-enable-disable-wake-timers-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/63070-enable-disable-wak...
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >He means Windows can set a timer to wake up after a while to run scheduled tasks. Yes, it can se timer to wake automatically from hibernate, but that doesn't mean it does that automatically withotu you setting those timers. I can understand there have been some bugs in the past but that's anon-issue today.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  > Windows can wake itself from hibernate. The USB bus and sound system is still the weak spot on a windows computer in my experience, this website, reddit, youtube, or dailymail generally takes them out. Surprised that people used sleep and hibernate, considering TSR's were invented in the dos days and the browser can do lots of fancy stuff. Theres even a reg setting to clear the page file on shutdown. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\ ClearPageFileAtShutdown Dword32 1
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  This. During lockdowns, I dusted off an old PC and set it up with windows for gaming. The computer was in front of my bed. One out of two nights, the thing would randomly wake out of hibernation, blasting the freaking blue bitlocker screen at me (password unlock, since that PC didn't have a tpm). This PC was kept reasonably up to date, too (usually installed whatever update at the most a day or two after they came out, complete with the reboot), so not sure what it was hoping to do, exactly.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >One out of two nights, the thing would randomly wake out of hibernation I'm sure you mistakenly used sleep instead of hibernate without knowing or remembering, to have that issue, or you had the issue where hibernate didn't work and reverted to sleep instead. I also had that issue and discovered that the Linux dual-boot installation with Grub's changes to the MBR broke Window's capability to hibernate, so me hitting hibernate was actually triggering sleep instead. Hibernate does not randomly wake up.
    - criddell 3y ago
      On Windows, hibernate is a sleep state. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/kernel/system-sleeping-states https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/k... Here’s an example of a Windows machine waking from hibernate and how it was fixed: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/707115/windows-10-random-wake-up-soon-after-hibernate/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/707115/windows-10-... These kinds of problems are not uncommon and are not always due to users confusing the different sleep states.
  - tym0 3y ago
    Right, I have the same problem with my PC, guess I'll look for those hacks.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Windows can wake itself from hibernate. You're confusing that with sleep. Windows can't wake itself from hibernate as the machine is fully powered off, not in some sleep state.
  - tredre3 3y ago
    No, he's right. Windows can wake the computer from total shut down even (S5). It uses RTC alarms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_clock_alarm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_clock_alarm
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      "Can be set to wake up" doesn't mean "will wake up".
      - JetSpiegel 3y ago
        Modern versions wake up out of the box, you need to tinker with them to stop that.
distract8901 3y ago
That very much depends on your definition of "works". Does the machine go through the steps to save memory to disk and enter a low power state? Yes. But then windows can and does decide to wake itself up at any time, resulting in physical damage to the machine if it's stored in a closed bag. Discharging the battery and heating up the entire machine dramatically reduces your battery's lifetime. You cannot disable this behavior without going into the registry. So yes, it 'works', with the caveat that the machine may wake itself at any time, burn through the entire battery and possibly do irreprable damage to your machine.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >So yes, it 'works', with the caveat that the machine may wake itself at any time, burn through the entire battery and possibly do irreprable damage to your machine. You haven't read my comment fully or are confusing hibernate with sleep. I was talking about hibernate which 100% works, not sleep. Hibernate can't wake up your laptop as your machine is completely powered off.
  - callalex 3y ago
    I have had windows wake itself up after I clicked the “hibernate” button in the start menu. It’s pretty infuriating.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Is that the case anymore with a battery and Intel ME? I don’t believe it is.
  - distract8901 3y ago
    > Hibernate can't wake up your laptop as your machine is completely powered off. That is quite simply not true.
stonogo 3y ago
On Ubuntu you do have this option, you just have to set it up yourself. They don't prioritize support for it because "people who want to hibernate a laptop" is a rounding error in their customer population statistics.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >On Ubuntu you do have this option, you just have to set it up yourself. Which means it's not available. Technically my car can also go diving underwater, you just have to set it up yourself for that. I expect stuff on my OS to work out of the box, not require hours of dangerous tinkering with the risk of braking, to get something basic to work. >They don't prioritize support for it because "people who want to hibernate a laptop" is a rounding error in their customer population statistics. I mean, it's feature that I absolutely use on Windows regularly, which means it matters a lot to me, the userbase of 1, to have it on Linux as well, I don't really care what the opinionated Ubuntu dev team think on the way I'm supped to use my own computer.
  - stonogo 3y ago
    Sounds like Ubuntu is not for you, then. For different reasons, it's not for me either. Good thing you've got Windows.
Aerroon 3y ago
After hibernate Windows thinks I have a laptop keyboard. If num lock is turned on then yuihjkbnm keys turn into a numpad. A restart or replugging the keyboard fixes it. Still annoying though. Windows also likes waking itself up for various reasons, but I don't remember if that was hibernate or sleep. Turning off everything except the power button wake up fixed it though. But I do agree - I would like a working hibernate in any OS I use. The next best thing is never turning it off though.

lostmsu 3y ago

It might be broken on your laptop, but it does not seem to be broken in general.