4 ms·

> I'm guessing that this was intended to reduce the headcount without paying severance The employees were planning to unionize, and the RTO plan "conveniently"

> I'm guessing that this was intended to reduce the headcount without paying severance The employees were planning to unionize, and the RTO plan "conveniently" came up right at that time. These are pretty classic union-busting techniques. I'm actually pretty nervous for users from a security perspective. The Grindr data is essentially a blackmail gold mine - combine a ton of disgruntled employees with the loss of expertise to maintain app security (which had a number of issues in the past), and I don't think it bodes well.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
> These are pretty classic union-busting techniques. The NLRB has been notified, mentioned in the article.
- giantg2 3y ago
  The real question is will they do anything.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    It's likely. https://prospect.org/labor/2023-08-28-bidens-nlrb-brings-workers-rights-back/ https://prospect.org/labor/2023-08-28-bidens-nlrb-brings-wor... https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-issues-decision-announcing-new-framework-for-union-representation https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-issues-d... https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/national-labor-relations-board-issues-final-rule-to-restore-fair-and https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/national-labor...
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      That looks like a lot of marketing to me trying to shore up Biden's reputation with Union workers after he killed the railroad strike and left our necessary workers to the dogs.
      - enraged_camel 3y ago
        You’re getting downvoted because that wasn’t Biden, it was Congress. Biden is probably the most union-friendly president over the past 50 years.
        red-iron-pine 3y ago
        which I wouldn't have expected, honestly
      - dabraham1248 3y ago
        From the _IBEW_ ( https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/2306... ): > “We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.
        nxobject 3y ago
        That's amazing – it's strange that I never noticed that. Although I can imagine that it would benefit a lot of dealmakers to lower the public attention on this issue a little.
        rhaway84773 3y ago
        No it doesn’t benefit any deal maker to do this. The media simply doesn’t cover this for obvious reasons. The media is corporate and pro union actions aren’t good for them either.
      - mitchdoogle 3y ago
        Whether someone truly cares about an issue or whether they are pretending to care, if the outcome is the same then does it actually matter?
    - giantg2 3y ago
      Sure, plenty of rules exist. The real test is in how those get enforced.
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/us-circuit-court-directs-us-marshals-to-take-haven-salon-spa-corporate https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/us-circuit-cou... ("U.S. Circuit Court Directs U.S. Marshals to Take Haven Salon + Spa Corporate Officials into Custody for Refusing to Comply with Board’s and Court’s Orders")
      - r00fus 3y ago
        NLRB just changed a key rule so a lot of union-busting by the employer now essentially automatically forces recognition of the union. https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-revises-standard-on-employers-duty-to-bargain-before-changing-terms https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-revises-...
        giantg2 3y ago
        Again, that's a nice rule. But how is that enforced? It still has to be proven that RTO is intended to union bust. That's the tough part.
        r00fus 3y ago
        To my understanding if 50% (a majority) of the employees signs up (ie, union cards) for the union prior to any vote, if the employer takes a union-busting act, the union is automatically legitimized and the employer must negotiate with them. Most major corporations are all already doing union-deterrence (not illegal) as operating practice so they likely won't see an impact unless there is a black swan event that causes workforce and management to come to loggerheads.
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Your understanding is correct.
dehrmann 3y ago
I'm not sure if unionization plans came before or after the RTO plans. If it was before, I'd actually consider it a new union-busting technique.
- pstoica 3y ago
  It was before. They didn't acknowledge it and put the RTO in effect. (Second-hand account.)
- piece_of_mind 3y ago
  Unionization efforts started at least 2 weeks before the RTO plans.
datavirtue 3y ago
They forgot to mention that all of their customers just left also. One of those employees has all the data. Guaranteed.
jstarfish 3y ago
> I'm actually pretty nervous for users from a security perspective. The Grindr data is essentially a blackmail gold mine - combine a ton of disgruntled employees with the loss of expertise to maintain app security (which had a number of issues in the past), and I don't think it bodes well. This shouldn't change anything from an opsec perspective. Google itself will always have record of you having downloaded it to your device. The Chinese were looking to buy Grindr for some reason. Someone could leak, sure, but nothing stops the company itself from selling out to anyone interested in membership records at any time.
- Animats 3y ago
  > The Grindr data is essentially a blackmail gold mine. More than that. It's leaked before.[1] Grindr data was used to catch a senior US Catholic official: "... an analysis of app data signals correlated to Burrill’s mobile device shows the priest also visited gay bars and private residences while using a location-based hookup app in numerous cities from 2018 to 2020, even while traveling on assignment for the U.S. bishops’ conference." “On Monday, we became aware of impending media reports alleging possible improper behavior by Msgr. Burrill. What was shared with us did not include allegations of misconduct with minors. However, in order to avoid becoming a distraction to the operations and ongoing work of the Conference, Monsignor has resigned effective immediately,”[2] [1] https://www.engadget.com/grindr-location-data-sold-for-years-145320411.htm https://www.engadget.com/grindr-location-data-sold-for-years... [2] https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/pillar-investigates-usccb-gen-sec https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/pillar-investigates-usccb-g...
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Amazing how quickly they solve the "problem" when it involves completely legal consensual adult activity, compared to when it's a YOUNG boy
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      GPS for "meeting young boys" just points to church, unfortunately. One's much easier to track with tech.
gwright 3y ago
> These are pretty classic union-busting techniques. It may be a union-busting technique, but I'm not sure about "classic". I mean how often has the economy had to recover from a multi-year work at home mandate due to a pandemic? The massive switch to remote work and the pendulum swinging back towards more in-office work is a unique phenomena, not a recurring "classic" situation.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

> These are pretty classic union-busting techniques. The NLRB has been notified, mentioned in the article.

giantg2 3y ago
The real question is will they do anything.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  It's likely. https://prospect.org/labor/2023-08-28-bidens-nlrb-brings-workers-rights-back/ https://prospect.org/labor/2023-08-28-bidens-nlrb-brings-wor... https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-issues-decision-announcing-new-framework-for-union-representation https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-issues-d... https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/national-labor-relations-board-issues-final-rule-to-restore-fair-and https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/national-labor...
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    That looks like a lot of marketing to me trying to shore up Biden's reputation with Union workers after he killed the railroad strike and left our necessary workers to the dogs.
    - enraged_camel 3y ago
      You’re getting downvoted because that wasn’t Biden, it was Congress. Biden is probably the most union-friendly president over the past 50 years.
      - red-iron-pine 3y ago
        which I wouldn't have expected, honestly
    - dabraham1248 3y ago
      From the _IBEW_ ( https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/2306... ): > “We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.
      - nxobject 3y ago
        That's amazing – it's strange that I never noticed that. Although I can imagine that it would benefit a lot of dealmakers to lower the public attention on this issue a little.
        rhaway84773 3y ago
        No it doesn’t benefit any deal maker to do this. The media simply doesn’t cover this for obvious reasons. The media is corporate and pro union actions aren’t good for them either.
    - mitchdoogle 3y ago
      Whether someone truly cares about an issue or whether they are pretending to care, if the outcome is the same then does it actually matter?
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Sure, plenty of rules exist. The real test is in how those get enforced.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/us-circuit-court-directs-us-marshals-to-take-haven-salon-spa-corporate https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/us-circuit-cou... ("U.S. Circuit Court Directs U.S. Marshals to Take Haven Salon + Spa Corporate Officials into Custody for Refusing to Comply with Board’s and Court’s Orders")
    - r00fus 3y ago
      NLRB just changed a key rule so a lot of union-busting by the employer now essentially automatically forces recognition of the union. https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-revises-standard-on-employers-duty-to-bargain-before-changing-terms https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-revises-...
      - giantg2 3y ago
        Again, that's a nice rule. But how is that enforced? It still has to be proven that RTO is intended to union bust. That's the tough part.
        r00fus 3y ago
        To my understanding if 50% (a majority) of the employees signs up (ie, union cards) for the union prior to any vote, if the employer takes a union-busting act, the union is automatically legitimized and the employer must negotiate with them. Most major corporations are all already doing union-deterrence (not illegal) as operating practice so they likely won't see an impact unless there is a black swan event that causes workforce and management to come to loggerheads.
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Your understanding is correct.

dehrmann 3y ago

I'm not sure if unionization plans came before or after the RTO plans. If it was before, I'd actually consider it a new union-busting technique.

pstoica 3y ago
It was before. They didn't acknowledge it and put the RTO in effect. (Second-hand account.)
piece_of_mind 3y ago
Unionization efforts started at least 2 weeks before the RTO plans.

datavirtue 3y ago

They forgot to mention that all of their customers just left also. One of those employees has all the data. Guaranteed.

jstarfish 3y ago

> I'm actually pretty nervous for users from a security perspective. The Grindr data is essentially a blackmail gold mine - combine a ton of disgruntled employees with the loss of expertise to maintain app security (which had a number of issues in the past), and I don't think it bodes well. This shouldn't change anything from an opsec perspective. Google itself will always have record of you having downloaded it to your device. The Chinese were looking to buy Grindr for some reason. Someone could leak, sure, but nothing stops the company itself from selling out to anyone interested in membership records at any time.

Animats 3y ago
> The Grindr data is essentially a blackmail gold mine. More than that. It's leaked before.[1] Grindr data was used to catch a senior US Catholic official: "... an analysis of app data signals correlated to Burrill’s mobile device shows the priest also visited gay bars and private residences while using a location-based hookup app in numerous cities from 2018 to 2020, even while traveling on assignment for the U.S. bishops’ conference." “On Monday, we became aware of impending media reports alleging possible improper behavior by Msgr. Burrill. What was shared with us did not include allegations of misconduct with minors. However, in order to avoid becoming a distraction to the operations and ongoing work of the Conference, Monsignor has resigned effective immediately,”[2] [1] https://www.engadget.com/grindr-location-data-sold-for-years-145320411.htm https://www.engadget.com/grindr-location-data-sold-for-years... [2] https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/pillar-investigates-usccb-gen-sec https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/pillar-investigates-usccb-g...
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Amazing how quickly they solve the "problem" when it involves completely legal consensual adult activity, compared to when it's a YOUNG boy
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    GPS for "meeting young boys" just points to church, unfortunately. One's much easier to track with tech.

gwright 3y ago

> These are pretty classic union-busting techniques. It may be a union-busting technique, but I'm not sure about "classic". I mean how often has the economy had to recover from a multi-year work at home mandate due to a pandemic? The massive switch to remote work and the pendulum swinging back towards more in-office work is a unique phenomena, not a recurring "classic" situation.