4 ms·

These kinds of metrics are brought up often and, while I think they are somewhat useful, the article makes it clear that they're not in line with the goal of th

These kinds of metrics are brought up often and, while I think they are somewhat useful, the article makes it clear that they're not in line with the goal of these bans. The problem is not that it was too harmful to the climate to produce these bags. The problem is some percentage of bags become litter and pollute the environment. I think other environmental indicators are good to consider, but simply presenting these metrics as capturing "environmental impact" is both deceptive and out of line with the goals of the bag bans as I understand them.

gruez 3y ago
>The problem is not that it was too harmful to the climate to produce these bags. The problem is some percentage of bags become litter and pollute the environment. 1. Is this actually the case, or just post-hoc justification? Remember when during the pandemic, the lockdowns were justified by "just 2 weeks to flatten the curve"? 2. Most of the time I'm given a plastic bag, it's being used to carry something back to my home. Under that scenario, there's basically a 0% chance that it's going to "become litter and pollute the environment". If litter was actually the concern, you'd expect the bans to be targeted at stores where goods being sold don't end up going to homes (fast food resturants and gas stations maybe?), but that's not what we're seeing.
- aeturnum 3y ago
  1. I did not write these laws and cannot speak to the internal beliefs of the authors, but the campaigns I saw were about reducing waste / overall plastic production (i.e. litter) not about reducing the climate resources to produce bags. 2. I don't think what you are saying makes sense? I also take things that gas stations and restaurants give me home. Like...based on your objection there should be no litter because everyone takes things given to them home. That said - I am sure that the people who advocated for the current bag bans would absolutely support expanding them.
- drtz 3y ago
  Can't speak for California or LA, but in Dallas we had a plastic bag ban for a short period and it was sold as a way to reduce local litter, not reduce greenhouse emissions or protect the climate. I didn't realize how effective it was until about 6 months when I was walking Downtown and noticed a plastic bag tumbling down the street. Prior to the ban, they were a regular sight and nothing I would have taken note of.

gruez 3y ago

>The problem is not that it was too harmful to the climate to produce these bags. The problem is some percentage of bags become litter and pollute the environment. 1. Is this actually the case, or just post-hoc justification? Remember when during the pandemic, the lockdowns were justified by "just 2 weeks to flatten the curve"? 2. Most of the time I'm given a plastic bag, it's being used to carry something back to my home. Under that scenario, there's basically a 0% chance that it's going to "become litter and pollute the environment". If litter was actually the concern, you'd expect the bans to be targeted at stores where goods being sold don't end up going to homes (fast food resturants and gas stations maybe?), but that's not what we're seeing.

aeturnum 3y ago
1. I did not write these laws and cannot speak to the internal beliefs of the authors, but the campaigns I saw were about reducing waste / overall plastic production (i.e. litter) not about reducing the climate resources to produce bags. 2. I don't think what you are saying makes sense? I also take things that gas stations and restaurants give me home. Like...based on your objection there should be no litter because everyone takes things given to them home. That said - I am sure that the people who advocated for the current bag bans would absolutely support expanding them.
drtz 3y ago
Can't speak for California or LA, but in Dallas we had a plastic bag ban for a short period and it was sold as a way to reduce local litter, not reduce greenhouse emissions or protect the climate. I didn't realize how effective it was until about 6 months when I was walking Downtown and noticed a plastic bag tumbling down the street. Prior to the ban, they were a regular sight and nothing I would have taken note of.