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> The agency also counts on bitcoin miners to soak up excess power when there’s too much supply, keeping prices in check. And how does the Texas public benefit

by rexpop 3y ago

> The agency also counts on bitcoin miners to soak up excess power when there’s too much supply, keeping prices in check. And how does the Texas public benefit from this? Is "to soak up excess power" really that valuable?

Bjartr 3y ago
AIUI, turning on a dormant power plant is an expensive process, but utilities need to be careful to balance the amount of power they put into the network is close to the amount of power being consumed or "bad things will happen™" If the power draw is fluctuating around a level where one more power plant needs to be on during the high demand, but is is low enough during low demand for it to be dangerous to keep the plant running, it can be cheaper to just "soak up the extra" than to cycle the whole plant on and off.
- htrp 3y ago
  > it can be cheaper to just "soak up the extra" than to cycle the whole plant on and off. hence why nat gas peakers are so valuable.
  - cheaprentalyeti 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - tstrimple 3y ago
      Since when do the feds have anything to do with Texas peaker plants? Texas was unable to fire their gas peaker plants because they didn't bother winterizing them and the equipment froze. That's one of the reason Texas maintains a separate grid. They didn't want to follow fed recommendations for winterizing their power production. This is entirely on Texas. https://acee.princeton.edu/acee-news/andlinger-center-speaks-the-texas-freeze-and-widespread-energy-system-failures/ https://acee.princeton.edu/acee-news/andlinger-center-speaks... > Freeze-offs, or when natural gas wellheads and pipelines freeze, reduced the supply and rate of supply of natural gas and forced large numbers of the gas plants offline due to lack of access to the fuel source. Often times home heating systems, including common natural gas-powered furnaces, require electricity to run, so even residents that may have been lucky enough to have gas supply could not heat their homes. In many cases, residents were unable to stay warm, cook food, or boil water. > The conditions compromised every power source. Coal plants that shut down likely struggled with frozen coal piles where operators could not feed the coal into the plant or access unfrozen water for cooling. One of the state’s four nuclear reactors went offline for about 36 hours due to a frozen sensor on a water feed line.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      You are laughably misinformed. The fed can't tell Texas to do anything about it's power grid. That's the WHOLE POINT
      - plasticsoprano 3y ago
        It can though. Texas still has to get approval from the feds to run the plants in a manner that will increase emission levels beyond EPA limits. Here's the letter [1] ERCOT sent asking for permission. 1. https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2021/02/f82/ERCOT%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20Request%20-%2002.14.2021.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2021/02/f82/ERCOT...
    - fzeroracer 3y ago
      The freeze was a crisis entirely of Texa's own making because they're refusing to winterize their plants as freezes become increasingly common and more dangerous. The fact that you want to blame the feds for Texas complete ineptitude is disgusting as someone that had to deal with the freeze in 2021.
      - lukevp 3y ago
        I was there for the freeze in 2021. Thankfully we had power periodically for an hour or two a couple times a day, so we were able to run the heater and keep the home livable (although it was in the low 50s at times inside). Dumped a lot of water out of the outside spigots (also not winterized) to keep the exposed PVC pipes from freezing outside. Neighbor didn’t do the same and his garage flooded because of all the burst pipes. It was a nightmare, and we had it better than a lot of other people did. Sad to hear this is happening again. It’s 100% on Texas.
SilverBirch 3y ago
Frankly? Yes soaking up power is difficult, you need loads of hardware. Put too much power into something and it blows up. Unless you want to invest vast sums in energy storage then this is quite an efficient option.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
positr0n 3y ago
It's a pretty standard option in contracts for industrial sized consumers of electricity anywhere in the world.
obviouslynotme 3y ago
Power generation comes in two classes, baseline and peaker. Baseline units are on 24/7. They are typically very efficient, but can take days or weeks to start. Peakers can turn on in minutes of notice and are usually better at following demand. Power demand follows daily sinusoidal cycles. By having an economical consumer of electricity that can choose operation times, you can have them use power at night in order to flatten your sinusoidal demand, thus allowing a higher percentage of efficient baseline units to run instead of peakers.
- rcme 3y ago
  Why don't they just pump water up hill at night? That would be a much better use of the electricity.
  - obviouslynotme 3y ago
    There are already many energy storage systems in place and many more being installed even now. The problem is that energy storage and recovery is a hard problem. Anyone who solves it will be rich overnight.
  - rurban 3y ago
    Texas is like Germany. No hills (unless you count the waste disposal hills, where you cannot pump up water)
    - stormfather 3y ago
      I live in the hill country in Texas, so I would disagree there.
      - lukevp 3y ago
        I’m from the hill country… but that’s just a small area near Austin. Houston, SA, DFW, etc. are all very flat.
lijok 3y ago
Yes, very The soaker being a shitcoin farm however does leave a sour taste in peoples mouths

by rexpop 3y ago

Bjartr 3y ago

AIUI, turning on a dormant power plant is an expensive process, but utilities need to be careful to balance the amount of power they put into the network is close to the amount of power being consumed or "bad things will happen™" If the power draw is fluctuating around a level where one more power plant needs to be on during the high demand, but is is low enough during low demand for it to be dangerous to keep the plant running, it can be cheaper to just "soak up the extra" than to cycle the whole plant on and off.

htrp 3y ago
> it can be cheaper to just "soak up the extra" than to cycle the whole plant on and off. hence why nat gas peakers are so valuable.
- cheaprentalyeti 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - tstrimple 3y ago
    Since when do the feds have anything to do with Texas peaker plants? Texas was unable to fire their gas peaker plants because they didn't bother winterizing them and the equipment froze. That's one of the reason Texas maintains a separate grid. They didn't want to follow fed recommendations for winterizing their power production. This is entirely on Texas. https://acee.princeton.edu/acee-news/andlinger-center-speaks-the-texas-freeze-and-widespread-energy-system-failures/ https://acee.princeton.edu/acee-news/andlinger-center-speaks... > Freeze-offs, or when natural gas wellheads and pipelines freeze, reduced the supply and rate of supply of natural gas and forced large numbers of the gas plants offline due to lack of access to the fuel source. Often times home heating systems, including common natural gas-powered furnaces, require electricity to run, so even residents that may have been lucky enough to have gas supply could not heat their homes. In many cases, residents were unable to stay warm, cook food, or boil water. > The conditions compromised every power source. Coal plants that shut down likely struggled with frozen coal piles where operators could not feed the coal into the plant or access unfrozen water for cooling. One of the state’s four nuclear reactors went offline for about 36 hours due to a frozen sensor on a water feed line.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    You are laughably misinformed. The fed can't tell Texas to do anything about it's power grid. That's the WHOLE POINT
    - plasticsoprano 3y ago
      It can though. Texas still has to get approval from the feds to run the plants in a manner that will increase emission levels beyond EPA limits. Here's the letter [1] ERCOT sent asking for permission. 1. https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2021/02/f82/ERCOT%20202%28c%29%20Emergency%20Order%20Request%20-%2002.14.2021.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2021/02/f82/ERCOT...
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    The freeze was a crisis entirely of Texa's own making because they're refusing to winterize their plants as freezes become increasingly common and more dangerous. The fact that you want to blame the feds for Texas complete ineptitude is disgusting as someone that had to deal with the freeze in 2021.
    - lukevp 3y ago
      I was there for the freeze in 2021. Thankfully we had power periodically for an hour or two a couple times a day, so we were able to run the heater and keep the home livable (although it was in the low 50s at times inside). Dumped a lot of water out of the outside spigots (also not winterized) to keep the exposed PVC pipes from freezing outside. Neighbor didn’t do the same and his garage flooded because of all the burst pipes. It was a nightmare, and we had it better than a lot of other people did. Sad to hear this is happening again. It’s 100% on Texas.

SilverBirch 3y ago

Frankly? Yes soaking up power is difficult, you need loads of hardware. Put too much power into something and it blows up. Unless you want to invest vast sums in energy storage then this is quite an efficient option.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

positr0n 3y ago

It's a pretty standard option in contracts for industrial sized consumers of electricity anywhere in the world.

obviouslynotme 3y ago

Power generation comes in two classes, baseline and peaker. Baseline units are on 24/7. They are typically very efficient, but can take days or weeks to start. Peakers can turn on in minutes of notice and are usually better at following demand. Power demand follows daily sinusoidal cycles. By having an economical consumer of electricity that can choose operation times, you can have them use power at night in order to flatten your sinusoidal demand, thus allowing a higher percentage of efficient baseline units to run instead of peakers.

rcme 3y ago
Why don't they just pump water up hill at night? That would be a much better use of the electricity.
- obviouslynotme 3y ago
  There are already many energy storage systems in place and many more being installed even now. The problem is that energy storage and recovery is a hard problem. Anyone who solves it will be rich overnight.
- rurban 3y ago
  Texas is like Germany. No hills (unless you count the waste disposal hills, where you cannot pump up water)
  - stormfather 3y ago
    I live in the hill country in Texas, so I would disagree there.
    - lukevp 3y ago
      I’m from the hill country… but that’s just a small area near Austin. Houston, SA, DFW, etc. are all very flat.

lijok 3y ago

Yes, very The soaker being a shitcoin farm however does leave a sour taste in peoples mouths