6 ms·

I don't think the two use cases are mutually exclusive. You can have that keyboard driven muscle-memory workflow, while keeping things discoverable for users wh

• eterps 3y ago
  Do you have examples where this is the case? In my experience, they've always seemed mutually exclusive.
  • Halfwhit 3y ago
    Emacs?
  • verdverm 3y ago
    the TUI library for tcell has mouse support, though you see it more in tview (or one of the dozens of maintained forks) I've already experimented with dropdown menus and minimizing sections. While I too love the TUI and keyboard driven experience, many want something they can click on, less overhead from every application having their own hotkeys. For me, it's about reaching more people, and the hope that I can bring more of them into the mouseless development experience
    • eterps 3y ago
      > many want something they can click on [...] it's about reaching more people To me, these reasons underscore the need for a genuine GUI, rather than a TUI that requires users to open a terminal just to have something clickable.
      • verdverm 3y ago
        yeah, I've consigned myself to needing a GUI, but for the time being, iteration with a TUI is much faster. Our focus is also CUE, where working from the Go API unlocks way more possibilities. We get to keep the extra complexity of representing CUE constructs as JSON for sending on the wire. Though that GUI might be native and avoid all the web stuff anyway.
      • nine_k 3y ago
        Many TUI programs, e.g. Midnight Commander, can use mouse, but are perfectly operable with just a keyboard. Same with Emacs or Vim in terminal mode. This is more about blending in among GUI tools, which is also important.
        • eterps 3y ago
          > This is more about blending in among GUI tools, which is also important. This is what I find difficult to understand, why is that important? And to whom? It made sense 35 years ago when MS-DOS was shipped by default and you just had to make do.
          • nine_k 3y ago
            Right now on my desktop I see 4 TUI windows, and 11 GUI windows. A full-featured web browser or a video chat client can't be realistically made TUI. I could have run Emacs in TUI mode, but I appreciate variable font support in non-code texts I write.
            • makapuf 3y ago
              For the videochat client it could be one video window with several panes (PIP, main+side small, ...) with a textual interface for controls, chatting etc.
  • cptnapalm 3y ago
    zellij
  • p_l 3y ago
    Older versions of AutoCAD (though even the most recent can't escape the REPL) are a good example.
  • adamckay 3y ago
    tmux. I know the keyboard shortcuts (that I customised) to create new windows and panes, and the shortcut to resize them all equally. I've not bothered to learn / remember the keyboard shortcuts to swap pane focus or resize individual panes because I've enabled mouse support and simply click where I want to focus and drag to resize.
    • qup 3y ago
      they're really easy defaults. like modifier and arrow key.
• chinchilla2020 3y ago
  AutoCAD is a great example of something that gives both options. New users tend to get really involved with the buttons, but gradually shift to full text control over years. Obviously in CAD sometimes you cannot enter coordinates and must grab the mouse... but it's still faster if you minimize use of the mouse.
  • gcr 3y ago
    I've found Fusion 360 to be highly mouse-driven with frustratingly few keyboard shortcuts available. It feels borderline unusable without having one hand on the mouse at all times to select various operations, and the faux-pie menus are too contextual to be a great replacement. Tools like Plasticity CAD¹ or Blender feel way more keyboard-friendly in this space. [1]: https://www.plasticity.xyz/ https://www.plasticity.xyz/