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So... start a "cryptocurrency" business and get paid to not use electricity. I mean, if that's not a good way to funnel money from the lower classes to the ric

So... start a "cryptocurrency" business and get paid to not use electricity. I mean, if that's not a good way to funnel money from the lower classes to the rich, I don't know what is.

dylan604 3y ago
I want to buy up all of the old readily available GPUs. No need to fight over new latest gen GPUs to actually produce coins. You just need equipment that looks like you can do mining. Then, voluntarily not mine anything so the power company pays you. That is the actual business model to not ever mine anything.
- netrus 3y ago
  I guess you also need to draw and pay for a lot of electricity most of the time to get that kind of deal.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I'm sure there's a simple circuit that can put a load on the mains in a way that doesn't cause fires or electrocute anyone
kentonv 3y ago
You joke but in August the biggest Bitcoin mine in North America got paid 3.5x more by the utility to turn their rigs off than they made in actual Bitcoin mined -- and they say openly that collecting credits is core to their strategy. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/06/texas-paid-bitcoin-miner-riot-31point7-million-to-shut-down-in-august.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/06/texas-paid-bitcoin-miner-rio...
- xwdv 3y ago
  Well that’s it then. I will startup a small crypto mining company, threaten to mine bitcoin and get paid out not to.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    You have to make a creditable threat first. My guess is even though bit being paid not to mine bitcoin is where the money is, they would still lose money overall if they didn't mine bitcoin at the time when they were not paid to not use power. That is you need to buy servers and keep them functional in order to get the subsidy. The subsidy isn't enough pay for the servers on its own. Probably bitcoin itself doesn't pay enough for the servers/power/space it needs anymore, though that requires analysis that I can't perform.
    - kentonv 3y ago
      The payments are described as "credits" which I assume means they only offset future power purchases; ERCOT doesn't actually give you cash. So you do have to have some sort of machine that converts power into money to take advantage of it.
LispSporks22 3y ago
I am curious what it takes to get this sweet deal. Surely anyone can join in the mining and get paid to do nothing on the wonky Texas grid and when you can run - deliver nothing of positive value to society. Does one need a minimum number of rigs? Maybe a permit? Just apply to the utility? I’d rather be paid than volunteer to sit around in the dark, sweating like a chump.
- dpkirchner 3y ago
  You probably need to start out by wining and dining folks at the Texas Railroad Commission.
  - LispSporks22 3y ago
    So I think according to this https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/UT/htm/UT.39.htm#39.151 https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/UT/htm/UT.39.htm#39.... > (1) the facility requires a total load of more than 75 megawatts; and Then I register with ERCOT... and profit. They seem to have passed a few bothersome "bills" to thwart our attempts at being a giant resistor though. Also, so they don't seem to specify any efficiency rating for the whole endeavor. Perhaps I can literally install a giant power resistor + a few GPUs, claim 75 MW, turn it all off and then head to the bank?
pjc50 3y ago
Clearly I need to start Big Resistor Inc. It's just a big connection across the grid that wastes megawatts of energy, but I can get paid for turning it off.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Only if your threat to turn it on is realistic. That is you have to be willing to buy at market rates metawatts of energy when they don't feel like paying you. If they think you are doing this - that is not producing value with those metawatts you buy when you buy they will call your bluff: not pay you and thus force you to lose $$$ proving you are serious. I think their pockets are bigger than yours and so it won't work out.

So... start a "cryptocurrency" business and get paid to not use electricity. I mean, if that's not a good way to funnel money from the lower classes to the rich, I don't know what is.

dylan604 3y ago

I want to buy up all of the old readily available GPUs. No need to fight over new latest gen GPUs to actually produce coins. You just need equipment that looks like you can do mining. Then, voluntarily not mine anything so the power company pays you. That is the actual business model to not ever mine anything.

netrus 3y ago
I guess you also need to draw and pay for a lot of electricity most of the time to get that kind of deal.
- dylan604 3y ago
  I'm sure there's a simple circuit that can put a load on the mains in a way that doesn't cause fires or electrocute anyone

kentonv 3y ago

You joke but in August the biggest Bitcoin mine in North America got paid 3.5x more by the utility to turn their rigs off than they made in actual Bitcoin mined -- and they say openly that collecting credits is core to their strategy. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/06/texas-paid-bitcoin-miner-riot-31point7-million-to-shut-down-in-august.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/06/texas-paid-bitcoin-miner-rio...

xwdv 3y ago
Well that’s it then. I will startup a small crypto mining company, threaten to mine bitcoin and get paid out not to.
- bluGill 3y ago
  You have to make a creditable threat first. My guess is even though bit being paid not to mine bitcoin is where the money is, they would still lose money overall if they didn't mine bitcoin at the time when they were not paid to not use power. That is you need to buy servers and keep them functional in order to get the subsidy. The subsidy isn't enough pay for the servers on its own. Probably bitcoin itself doesn't pay enough for the servers/power/space it needs anymore, though that requires analysis that I can't perform.
  - kentonv 3y ago
    The payments are described as "credits" which I assume means they only offset future power purchases; ERCOT doesn't actually give you cash. So you do have to have some sort of machine that converts power into money to take advantage of it.

LispSporks22 3y ago

I am curious what it takes to get this sweet deal. Surely anyone can join in the mining and get paid to do nothing on the wonky Texas grid and when you can run - deliver nothing of positive value to society. Does one need a minimum number of rigs? Maybe a permit? Just apply to the utility? I’d rather be paid than volunteer to sit around in the dark, sweating like a chump.

dpkirchner 3y ago
You probably need to start out by wining and dining folks at the Texas Railroad Commission.
- LispSporks22 3y ago
  So I think according to this https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/UT/htm/UT.39.htm#39.151 https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/UT/htm/UT.39.htm#39.... > (1) the facility requires a total load of more than 75 megawatts; and Then I register with ERCOT... and profit. They seem to have passed a few bothersome "bills" to thwart our attempts at being a giant resistor though. Also, so they don't seem to specify any efficiency rating for the whole endeavor. Perhaps I can literally install a giant power resistor + a few GPUs, claim 75 MW, turn it all off and then head to the bank?

pjc50 3y ago

Clearly I need to start Big Resistor Inc. It's just a big connection across the grid that wastes megawatts of energy, but I can get paid for turning it off.

bluGill 3y ago
Only if your threat to turn it on is realistic. That is you have to be willing to buy at market rates metawatts of energy when they don't feel like paying you. If they think you are doing this - that is not producing value with those metawatts you buy when you buy they will call your bluff: not pay you and thus force you to lose $$$ proving you are serious. I think their pockets are bigger than yours and so it won't work out.