4 ms·

There would be less of a housing crisis if we had regular immigration controls -like most other countries in the world. Currently pretty much anyone can cross

by mc32 3y ago

There would be less of a housing crisis if we had regular immigration controls -like most other countries in the world. Currently pretty much anyone can cross with little problem --the problems express themselves later on --millions of added demand for housing units: these units don't get built overnight and nor do many unskilled workers with poor education or communications skills have the buying power to propel further construction (it's unprofitable). When the USSR or Warsaw pact countries imported temporary unskilled labor they build housing blocks for those folks --they had a plan.

11101010001100 3y ago
Really, immigration? That's the problem?
- VancouverMan 3y ago
  In Canada, it absolutely is. Compared to Canada's relatively small population, a huge number of foreigners are bring brought in each year, and this has been going on for a long time now. Keep in mind that it goes well beyond just economic migrants. It also involves foreign "students" and so-called "refugees" and "asylum seekers", among others. This unnatural influx has introduced some significant economic distortions, with the cost of housing being just one of them.
  - tharmas 3y ago
    This! To add: 900,000 "students" with the option to stay. 500,000 immigrants. 600,000 skilled worker visas. 90,000 refugees. That's over 2 million in a year. And they want to do this EVERY year until the population gets to 100 million. This is controlled by the Federal government. Housing is controlled by Provincial governments and municipal governments. What immigrant is going to move to Cranbrook, BC when there's no jobs there and no community that speaks their language or government support services that help such people integrate into Canadian life. Those immigrants know better and hence go to the bigger cities.
  - 11101010001100 3y ago
    Quebec has a tiny immigration problem, yet housing is still a large problem. It goes beyond immigration...
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  It’s a popular belief in Canada, particularly on the west coast (popular destination for Asian immigrants) where property prices have grown even more than in Toronto. There’s a particularly pernicious problem with increasing housing prices though which is that it creates a large number of winners as well as losers and somebody could be absolutely ruined if they buy a $1.2M house that they sell later for $400,000 and in turn the banking system would be imperiled so there are strong pressures to not take decisive action to stop property price appreciation or reverse it.
hypeit 3y ago
> these units don't get built overnight These units don't get built at all without immigration since that's where much of the labor pool is coming from. The problem isn't immigration, the problem is that the US housing stock is designed to satisfy the desire to live in a sitcom style/hgtv flipped mcmansion.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  > These units don't get built at all without immigration since that's where much of the labor pool is coming from. There are plenty of countries with negligible immigration and without housing crises, so this is clearly false: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_owne... This is a common argument - anything done by immigrants is assumed to be only achievable with immigrants, despite numerous countries offering counterexamples, usually even the same country a few decades ago. The same population that built the country is assumed to be incompetent at any task they hand over to immigrants.
  - tivert 3y ago
    [flagged]
- mwbajor 3y ago
  Yes, house flipping is bad but more people means more places to live. Also, no one buys "down", they only buy "up" so even poor immigrants put upward pressure on the system.
redserk 3y ago
Could you provide a source showing that immigration is a meaningful factor?
- mwbajor 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gottorf 3y ago
    The article is talking about British Columbia, which is laughably underpopulated, like all of Canada. BC has a population of 5.5 million, which is two million less than Hong Kong; and if you overlaid HK starting at the western edge of Vancouver, you make it about halfway to Abbotsford. Vancouver Island alone is more than ten times the size of Hong Kong.
    - SenAnder 3y ago
      Underpopulated? Did the environmental movement flip in Canada, and they're now trying to get rid of their vast, pristine wilderness? The Canadian people are crying out to turn their forests into Hong Kong?
      - gottorf 3y ago
        "Underpopulated" in terms of the GP's comment saying God isn't making any more land, yes. Like I said elsewhere in this thread, it's a policy tradeoff to preserve wilderness at the cost of a housing crisis.
        tharmas 3y ago
        Jobs and climate determine where people live. There's no jobs in most places in BC so they go to the big city. And then there's climate. BC does have a better climate than most of Canada. However, most of Canada has a harsh climate. A lot of it is not really that habitable. The Canadian Shield covers most of Ontario and Quebec. There's a reason why most Canadians live within a 100 miles of the US border: Climate and Geography.
thfuran 3y ago
>these units don't get built overnight Why not? If there's predictable increases in demand that is being unmet by suppliers, surely the policy/factors leading to the shortage are a major part of the problem.

by mc32 3y ago

11101010001100 3y ago

Really, immigration? That's the problem?

VancouverMan 3y ago
In Canada, it absolutely is. Compared to Canada's relatively small population, a huge number of foreigners are bring brought in each year, and this has been going on for a long time now. Keep in mind that it goes well beyond just economic migrants. It also involves foreign "students" and so-called "refugees" and "asylum seekers", among others. This unnatural influx has introduced some significant economic distortions, with the cost of housing being just one of them.
- tharmas 3y ago
  This! To add: 900,000 "students" with the option to stay. 500,000 immigrants. 600,000 skilled worker visas. 90,000 refugees. That's over 2 million in a year. And they want to do this EVERY year until the population gets to 100 million. This is controlled by the Federal government. Housing is controlled by Provincial governments and municipal governments. What immigrant is going to move to Cranbrook, BC when there's no jobs there and no community that speaks their language or government support services that help such people integrate into Canadian life. Those immigrants know better and hence go to the bigger cities.
- 11101010001100 3y ago
  Quebec has a tiny immigration problem, yet housing is still a large problem. It goes beyond immigration...
PaulHoule 3y ago
It’s a popular belief in Canada, particularly on the west coast (popular destination for Asian immigrants) where property prices have grown even more than in Toronto. There’s a particularly pernicious problem with increasing housing prices though which is that it creates a large number of winners as well as losers and somebody could be absolutely ruined if they buy a $1.2M house that they sell later for $400,000 and in turn the banking system would be imperiled so there are strong pressures to not take decisive action to stop property price appreciation or reverse it.

hypeit 3y ago

> these units don't get built overnight These units don't get built at all without immigration since that's where much of the labor pool is coming from. The problem isn't immigration, the problem is that the US housing stock is designed to satisfy the desire to live in a sitcom style/hgtv flipped mcmansion.

SenAnder 3y ago
> These units don't get built at all without immigration since that's where much of the labor pool is coming from. There are plenty of countries with negligible immigration and without housing crises, so this is clearly false: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_owne... This is a common argument - anything done by immigrants is assumed to be only achievable with immigrants, despite numerous countries offering counterexamples, usually even the same country a few decades ago. The same population that built the country is assumed to be incompetent at any task they hand over to immigrants.
- tivert 3y ago
  [flagged]
mwbajor 3y ago
Yes, house flipping is bad but more people means more places to live. Also, no one buys "down", they only buy "up" so even poor immigrants put upward pressure on the system.

redserk 3y ago

Could you provide a source showing that immigration is a meaningful factor?

mwbajor 3y ago
[flagged]
- gottorf 3y ago
  The article is talking about British Columbia, which is laughably underpopulated, like all of Canada. BC has a population of 5.5 million, which is two million less than Hong Kong; and if you overlaid HK starting at the western edge of Vancouver, you make it about halfway to Abbotsford. Vancouver Island alone is more than ten times the size of Hong Kong.
  - SenAnder 3y ago
    Underpopulated? Did the environmental movement flip in Canada, and they're now trying to get rid of their vast, pristine wilderness? The Canadian people are crying out to turn their forests into Hong Kong?
    - gottorf 3y ago
      "Underpopulated" in terms of the GP's comment saying God isn't making any more land, yes. Like I said elsewhere in this thread, it's a policy tradeoff to preserve wilderness at the cost of a housing crisis.
      - tharmas 3y ago
        Jobs and climate determine where people live. There's no jobs in most places in BC so they go to the big city. And then there's climate. BC does have a better climate than most of Canada. However, most of Canada has a harsh climate. A lot of it is not really that habitable. The Canadian Shield covers most of Ontario and Quebec. There's a reason why most Canadians live within a 100 miles of the US border: Climate and Geography.

thfuran 3y ago

>these units don't get built overnight Why not? If there's predictable increases in demand that is being unmet by suppliers, surely the policy/factors leading to the shortage are a major part of the problem.