3 ms·

I wonder where that anti-military sentiment in U.S. tech stems from? At least in former Soviet bloc, we view your military in quite a positive light. Well, for

by xyzal 3y ago

I wonder where that anti-military sentiment in U.S. tech stems from? At least in former Soviet bloc, we view your military in quite a positive light. Well, for sure in a more positive light than armies of competing 'superpowers'.

boffinAudio 3y ago
[flagged]
- skinkestek 3y ago
  > The illegal invasion and occupation of Syria by an imperial force of allies. Is it the Russians or IS you think are our allies. Or am I missing out on something here?
  - Georgelemental 3y ago
    I assume boffinAudio is referring to how the Obama administration funded, armed, and trained Al-Quaeda: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/how-america-armed-te... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  > In former eastern-bloc countries, such trivialities are easily ignored in the lust for the Western decadence Also because people there remember the horror of Soviet domination. I am ashamed of my country's (US) crimes too, but they don't make the alternatives on offer any better.
  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    The world has a long, long way to go to catch up with the US' vast and heinous war crimes, crimes against humanity, and massive violations of human rights at scale. Anyone who lived through the soviet era can see that the USA has factually become the thing it was resisting, all this time, during the cold war era. War-profiteers such as Anduril are distasteful in that light, because they are producing weapons systems that are even MORE impune to public scrutiny. Stealth capabilities are there to hide from your own people too.
wlesieutre 3y ago
A bunch of people who grew up during the Iraq/Afghanistan invasions, or for older people Vietnam? It's been a while since the US was in a war that we looked at afterward (or during, frankly) and said "yeah it was a good and smart thing we did that, worth the costs."
corry 3y ago
I say this as a Canadian (meaning - don't take my opinion on the US too seriously), but it's so strange to see what's happening to tech. US Tech in the past: "we dislike the military, the government, the military-industrial complex (and generally all authority) because we skew hippy and/or libertarian. Let us be creative and free!" US Tech today: "we dislike the military, the government, and the military-industrial complex because our particular flavour of cultural identity politics doesn't like it. Let us conform to the moral outrage of the day." Meanwhile, the best reason IMO -- "we dislike the military, the government, the military-industrial complex because it serves the interests of the wealthy first and foremost (at the expense of the poor)" -- seems to get less discussion. But all of these are reasons why tech can dislike the military or at least be uncomfortable with it, even while DARPA funding has helped progress tech and many innovations have come out of military-first applications.
- dale_glass 3y ago
  I don't see what's the difference between "we skew hippy and/or libertarian" and "our particular flavour of cultural identity politics". Hippy and libertarian is a particular flavor of cultural identity politics.
  - bavell 3y ago
    Hippy/libertarian -> oppose war on principle Culture war / identity politics -> oppose/support war because that's the current thing
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      I still don't see a difference. The second is simply an uncharitable reading of the first.
  - master-lincoln 3y ago
    According to wikipedia identity politics is defined as "... politics based on a particular identity, such as race, nationality, religion, gender, sexual orientation, social background, social class." Which is not my association for Hippie politics or classic libertarian politics. Hippies in my head were known for proposing anti-materialistic lifestyle, less moral looking down on promiscuity, open to drug usage and anti war. None of those target a specific identity group. Libertarians are a political group who support freedom. Normally that means opposing state intervention, taxes, social nets, restrictions to what you can buy/sell. I don't see this as politics for a special identity group either. (ok maybe for the identity group in the upper social class) PS: somehow I feel like in the US libertarians seem to be seen as left wing which might be the case, but is not inherent to libertarian politics. You can have right wing libertarian politics like some libertarian parties in other countries show
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lelanthran 3y ago
> I wonder where that anti-military sentiment in U.S. tech stems from? At least in former Soviet bloc, we view your military in quite a positive light. Well, for sure in a more positive light than armies of competing 'superpowers'. I'm not American, and to me it just seems like a very vocal minority is doing a lot of the talking on behalf of everyone else.
caeril 3y ago
It's not anti-military, it's anti military suppliers who won't sell to civilians, even when there is no legal restriction preventing it. H&K, Anduril, Boston Dynamics, are just a few examples of companies who have entire product lines inaccessible to me, a private citizen who is not military, LEO, or a contractor of either. Anduril, in particular, rubs me the wrong way because Palmer Luckey talks a big game about being pro-liberty, but his company will only sell to the pigs.

by xyzal 3y ago

boffinAudio 3y ago

[flagged]

skinkestek 3y ago
> The illegal invasion and occupation of Syria by an imperial force of allies. Is it the Russians or IS you think are our allies. Or am I missing out on something here?
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  I assume boffinAudio is referring to how the Obama administration funded, armed, and trained Al-Quaeda: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/how-america-armed-te... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
Georgelemental 3y ago
> In former eastern-bloc countries, such trivialities are easily ignored in the lust for the Western decadence Also because people there remember the horror of Soviet domination. I am ashamed of my country's (US) crimes too, but they don't make the alternatives on offer any better.
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  The world has a long, long way to go to catch up with the US' vast and heinous war crimes, crimes against humanity, and massive violations of human rights at scale. Anyone who lived through the soviet era can see that the USA has factually become the thing it was resisting, all this time, during the cold war era. War-profiteers such as Anduril are distasteful in that light, because they are producing weapons systems that are even MORE impune to public scrutiny. Stealth capabilities are there to hide from your own people too.

wlesieutre 3y ago

A bunch of people who grew up during the Iraq/Afghanistan invasions, or for older people Vietnam? It's been a while since the US was in a war that we looked at afterward (or during, frankly) and said "yeah it was a good and smart thing we did that, worth the costs."

corry 3y ago

I say this as a Canadian (meaning - don't take my opinion on the US too seriously), but it's so strange to see what's happening to tech. US Tech in the past: "we dislike the military, the government, the military-industrial complex (and generally all authority) because we skew hippy and/or libertarian. Let us be creative and free!" US Tech today: "we dislike the military, the government, and the military-industrial complex because our particular flavour of cultural identity politics doesn't like it. Let us conform to the moral outrage of the day." Meanwhile, the best reason IMO -- "we dislike the military, the government, the military-industrial complex because it serves the interests of the wealthy first and foremost (at the expense of the poor)" -- seems to get less discussion. But all of these are reasons why tech can dislike the military or at least be uncomfortable with it, even while DARPA funding has helped progress tech and many innovations have come out of military-first applications.

dale_glass 3y ago
I don't see what's the difference between "we skew hippy and/or libertarian" and "our particular flavour of cultural identity politics". Hippy and libertarian is a particular flavor of cultural identity politics.
- bavell 3y ago
  Hippy/libertarian -> oppose war on principle Culture war / identity politics -> oppose/support war because that's the current thing
  - dale_glass 3y ago
    I still don't see a difference. The second is simply an uncharitable reading of the first.
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  According to wikipedia identity politics is defined as "... politics based on a particular identity, such as race, nationality, religion, gender, sexual orientation, social background, social class." Which is not my association for Hippie politics or classic libertarian politics. Hippies in my head were known for proposing anti-materialistic lifestyle, less moral looking down on promiscuity, open to drug usage and anti war. None of those target a specific identity group. Libertarians are a political group who support freedom. Normally that means opposing state intervention, taxes, social nets, restrictions to what you can buy/sell. I don't see this as politics for a special identity group either. (ok maybe for the identity group in the upper social class) PS: somehow I feel like in the US libertarians seem to be seen as left wing which might be the case, but is not inherent to libertarian politics. You can have right wing libertarian politics like some libertarian parties in other countries show

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

lelanthran 3y ago

> I wonder where that anti-military sentiment in U.S. tech stems from? At least in former Soviet bloc, we view your military in quite a positive light. Well, for sure in a more positive light than armies of competing 'superpowers'. I'm not American, and to me it just seems like a very vocal minority is doing a lot of the talking on behalf of everyone else.

caeril 3y ago

It's not anti-military, it's anti military suppliers who won't sell to civilians, even when there is no legal restriction preventing it. H&K, Anduril, Boston Dynamics, are just a few examples of companies who have entire product lines inaccessible to me, a private citizen who is not military, LEO, or a contractor of either. Anduril, in particular, rubs me the wrong way because Palmer Luckey talks a big game about being pro-liberty, but his company will only sell to the pigs.