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Can anyone explain why 25 Democrats + Bernie Sanders (Independent) voted against the bill? http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/senate/2/55?ref=busine

by sudonim 15y ago

Can anyone explain why 25 Democrats + Bernie Sanders (Independent) voted against the bill? http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/senate/2/55?ref=business http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/senate/2/55?r... Do they want to protect unsophisticated investors from being tricked? It seems like it's a really positive movement in support of small, innovative businesses.

tptacek 15y ago
Yes; it rolls back investor protections. To understand the concern (you don't have to agree with it to understand it), stop assuming that all or even most of the people who take advantage of Crowdfunding will be businesses run in good faith, or that there will be any effective way to impute reputations to all, most, or even any of the people offering equity on these sites.
- wheelerwj 15y ago
  it does make sense that the role of policing will have to be done on the portal owner's end. Brand Reputation, Success, etc. People were skeptical of Kickstarter at first but look at how it has flourished.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    Kickstarter isn't an investment vehicle. You don't put your money into Kickstarter hoping for a financial return.
    - wheelerwj 15y ago
      you do expect some kind of return though. It just comes in a different form. You don't go to kickstarter and say, "oh hey, ill just piss away 25$ because this guy seems nice...." plus kickstarter has its own vetting process.
- littlegiantcap 15y ago
  To be fair people said the same thing about ebay. Any sort of quality crowdfunding site will be able to prevent fraud through a mix of identity verification and leveraging their users expertise to weigh in on a businesses viability. (At least that's the model we're using)
  - jellicle 15y ago
    I think you and I both know that there is no shortcut way to evaluating the viability of a startup company. EITHER you will put them through a Y-combinator-like interview and evaluation process, with sophisticated evaluators and a lot of man-hours spent per company, OR you aren't doing shit to evaluate them and you're going to be hosting scammers left and right. There is no shortcut.
    - littlegiantcap 15y ago
      You crowdsource the viability and the platform makes sure they're a real company and verifies their legal status. Who better decide whether or not a company has a viable idea than their potential customers or users? In fact, I can't think of a better way to assess the viability of a company than to put it out there in front of 1000's of eyes to see. The truth is that the Y-Combinator evaluation style, or other more tradition financing routes for that matter, aren't the end all be all. We're working our tails off to leverage our users knowledge and make a system that roots out any sort of scammers.Crowdsourcing isn't a short cut, it's just a decentralized system versus our current more centralized one. In fact, I suspect more man hours will be put into assessing viability through a crowdsourced model just because of the sheer number of people.
      - jellicle 15y ago
        Scammers are going to slaughter you. Company: "We're going to cure cancer!" First 20 crowdsourcers, all paid by company: "These guys are totally legit! I visited their offices! Saw a hamster that was totally cancer-free!" Next 500 crowdsourcers, not paid by company: "Looks legit! Take our money, please!" Company founders: {fly to Switzerland in their ROFLcopter, having committed no crime whatsoever} 1000 or 100,000 or 100,000,000 eyes looking at a subject shallowly are not a replacement for one set of eyes looking at a subject deeply. The great thing is, the marks won't even realize they've been scammed for years or perhaps ever, due to the long delay between providing money and expecting results.

by sudonim 15y ago

tptacek 15y ago

Yes; it rolls back investor protections. To understand the concern (you don't have to agree with it to understand it), stop assuming that all or even most of the people who take advantage of Crowdfunding will be businesses run in good faith, or that there will be any effective way to impute reputations to all, most, or even any of the people offering equity on these sites.

wheelerwj 15y ago
it does make sense that the role of policing will have to be done on the portal owner's end. Brand Reputation, Success, etc. People were skeptical of Kickstarter at first but look at how it has flourished.
- tptacek 15y ago
  Kickstarter isn't an investment vehicle. You don't put your money into Kickstarter hoping for a financial return.
  - wheelerwj 15y ago
    you do expect some kind of return though. It just comes in a different form. You don't go to kickstarter and say, "oh hey, ill just piss away 25$ because this guy seems nice...." plus kickstarter has its own vetting process.
littlegiantcap 15y ago
To be fair people said the same thing about ebay. Any sort of quality crowdfunding site will be able to prevent fraud through a mix of identity verification and leveraging their users expertise to weigh in on a businesses viability. (At least that's the model we're using)
- jellicle 15y ago
  I think you and I both know that there is no shortcut way to evaluating the viability of a startup company. EITHER you will put them through a Y-combinator-like interview and evaluation process, with sophisticated evaluators and a lot of man-hours spent per company, OR you aren't doing shit to evaluate them and you're going to be hosting scammers left and right. There is no shortcut.
  - littlegiantcap 15y ago
    You crowdsource the viability and the platform makes sure they're a real company and verifies their legal status. Who better decide whether or not a company has a viable idea than their potential customers or users? In fact, I can't think of a better way to assess the viability of a company than to put it out there in front of 1000's of eyes to see. The truth is that the Y-Combinator evaluation style, or other more tradition financing routes for that matter, aren't the end all be all. We're working our tails off to leverage our users knowledge and make a system that roots out any sort of scammers.Crowdsourcing isn't a short cut, it's just a decentralized system versus our current more centralized one. In fact, I suspect more man hours will be put into assessing viability through a crowdsourced model just because of the sheer number of people.
    - jellicle 15y ago
      Scammers are going to slaughter you. Company: "We're going to cure cancer!" First 20 crowdsourcers, all paid by company: "These guys are totally legit! I visited their offices! Saw a hamster that was totally cancer-free!" Next 500 crowdsourcers, not paid by company: "Looks legit! Take our money, please!" Company founders: {fly to Switzerland in their ROFLcopter, having committed no crime whatsoever} 1000 or 100,000 or 100,000,000 eyes looking at a subject shallowly are not a replacement for one set of eyes looking at a subject deeply. The great thing is, the marks won't even realize they've been scammed for years or perhaps ever, due to the long delay between providing money and expecting results.